[00:00:00] Speaker A: Most of their children don't want to take over the family business.
[00:00:04] Speaker B: It is a build versus buy decision.
[00:00:06] Speaker C: Twisted means human.
[00:00:08] Speaker D: I'm Richard Gearhart.
[00:00:10] Speaker E: And I'm Elizabeth Gearhart. You just heard some snippets from our show. We had amazing people on. Listen for the rest of it.
[00:00:17] Speaker F: Ramping up your business. The time is near. You've given it heart, now get it in Gear.
It's Passage to Profit with Richard and Elizabeth Gearhart.
[00:00:28] Speaker D: I'm Richard Gearhart, founder of Gearhart Law, a full service intellectual property law firm specializing in patents, trademarks and copyrights.
[00:00:36] Speaker E: And I'm Elizabeth Gearhart, not an attorney, but I do marketing for Gearhart Law. And I am the founder of Gear Media Studios, a full service podcast studio.
[00:00:45] Speaker D: Welcome to Passage to Profit the Road to Entrepreneurship where we talk with entrepreneurs and celebrities about their business journeys. We have an amazing guest, Cameron Bishop. He's a seasoned executive and entrepreneur and currently managing director of Rain Catcher, an award winning business broker service.
[00:01:03] Speaker E: And then we have two incredible entrepreneurs. Satori Shetkar is an acclaimed master storyteller. But what I really find fascinating, I'm going to pick her brain apart on this one, is she's executive producer of the Secret Society of Twisted Storytellers. I can hardly wait to hear about this. And then Yasir Dubu find out if she's really twisted.
She looks pretty normal to me anyway. Yes, sir. Durboo is the founder and CEO of Taza.
So he helps people with custom software solutions. So we're going to dig into that. We're going to ask him exactly what he means by custom software because we hear that a lot and we think a lot of people are kind of like, yeah, I kind of know what that is. But so we have an expert here. We can pick his brain too. And coming up later on, it's Noah's retrospective along with Secrets of the Entrepreneurial Mind.
[00:01:52] Speaker D: But before we get to our distinguished guests, it's time for your new business journey. Two in five Americans, our business owners are thinking about starting their business. And so we like to ask questions during this segment that might be interesting to them. Our question this week is how do you build a network that works for you? And so, Cam, can you talk a little bit about your networking?
[00:02:13] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. I'll cover it on a couple of fronts. For about five years, I was a partner in a boutique consulting firm that practiced exit and transition planning for business owners. That's very much a referral based business. So you begin to leverage connections. LinkedIn is a powerful tool for that it's pretty known fact that it takes four to six touches with another person, that's a text message, phone call, coffee cocktail, emails to really establish a long ongoing relationship with folks in your network. And part of my practice was to do three to five meetings every day to build that network. And with each of those individuals I would ask them for suggestions on two other people from their network I should talk with. But it's also important to remember that that's very much a world where to get you have to give. So you have to be prepared to make introductions and referrals for other people. And there's a little bit of karma there that it will come back to you over time.
[00:03:13] Speaker D: Yeah, I really like the approach that you're taking. Number one, the karma piece I do think you have to give before you can get. Number two, you had some specific goals in terms of your networking, how many people you were going to talk to, you had a schedule for that. And I think a structured approach like that can really help you build network much more quickly. Yasir, talk to us a little bit about your networking efforts.
[00:03:36] Speaker B: Honestly, I must confess I'm an introvert. So it's, it is one of the hardest things I had to do. As I shifted into entrepreneurship, networking really started for me helping others solve their problems. I was really a software engineer, started helping other people solve their problem and from there I started valuing the network effect, so to speak. I started attending local trade groups and other business of commerce groups where I would go and try to help people think about technology and how it would help them with their businesses. So as I just heard, it's karma, you really need to help others first and then that helps you build your first part of the network. That's how we got landed our first few contracts and from there it was really heads down doing really good work. So your customers would speak about you to others and then you would ask for a reference that way. So initially just by helping others and growing that through local businesses that we helped and then eventually as we did good work that helped and it was really amplified by LinkedIn later on as we connected with like minded people and we had a system of reaching out to people on a certain cadence, really trying to continue to build that network.
[00:04:46] Speaker D: So Tori, you're the twisted storyteller, but maybe that involves networking as well.
[00:04:52] Speaker C: Absolutely. I never did like the word networking. It seems so transactional to me and I didn't know how to walk in a room with a card and go ooh, who can I utilize? And like that. So I'm kind of like being of service.
So my platform, I'm in the entertainment industry and so I have a platform where I curate new storytellers every month to tell a true and personal story on my stage. And I had to teach or facilitate supporting them with the craft to be able to tell a really great story. And that blossomed into facilitating story workshops. That blossomed into people referring me to coach, lawyers, individuals, organizations, university, faith based organizations. So I would provide that service and out of giving them a good service and they got good results, they would just automatically refer me. So I have for 13 years been doing this and I have never gone after business. I can't imagine what would happen if I went after business. But I get enough business from referrals that people who have enjoyed the results of my training receive.
[00:06:03] Speaker D: Yeah, that's great.
[00:06:04] Speaker A: Great.
[00:06:04] Speaker E: I love networking. I don't really like the name as much. I agree with Tori.
[00:06:08] Speaker D: We could call it professional socializing.
[00:06:11] Speaker E: Yeah, I just think it's friendship building. I don't know. I love it. I like seeing the same people at things over and over again. And I have a friend who's like a super good networker and she helped me a lot with this grand opening and introduced me to this chamber where the people are great. Everybody goes to everybody's events. So I go to their events just to pay them back. And what's so funny about that is like, I learned so much that I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm so glad I went to this event. So I love to just do it in person. And I do a lot online too, and I do a lot on LinkedIn and we do a lot, of course, through Passage to Profit, we meet a lot of really cool people doing this show, which is the best part of the show.
[00:06:45] Speaker D: Well, that's great. You are an amazing networker. And if there's a party to be thrown, Elizabeth will throw it. So she loves parties around people and she really enjoys the relationships. And for me, it didn't really even start that way. I sort of became more of a networker as my career progressed. I began to enjoy the contact and the interaction with people. One thing I would say that is if you're going to rely on networking as a strategy, one thing to do is make sure you're picking networking spots that are going to be relevant to your business. Right. There's lots of different places you can go to meet people and other business people. But you want to make sure that if you're going to be looking for new marketing clients, startups. Then you go to entrepreneurial groups that feature entrepreneurs and startups. And that way there's a good fit between what you're offering and hopefully what people are looking for. And my other comment is I always start just by asking people, well, how can I help you? I don't even begin talking about myself. I don't even tell people what I do, but I ask them, well, what are you looking for? How can I help you? And I try to start the relationship off with trying to be of service to somebody else and so putting the good karma out there as paid great benefits. So thank you everyone for your comments. This has been your new business journey. And now it's time for our guest interview. Today's guest sells businesses like hotcakes, except with more spreadsheets and fewer carbs. So we're joined today by Cameron Bishop, a powerhouse executive entrepreneur and managing director at Rain Catcher, one of the nation's top business brokerage and M and A firm. So, Cameron, nice to see you. What does a business broker do?
[00:08:33] Speaker A: Well, thank you for the introduction and thank you for having me on your show. It's a great opportunity, hopefully to help spread my passion message, which is about helping business owners to understand what it takes to have a valuable company. There are 10,000 baby boomers turning age 65 every single day, and many of them are business owners. And the trends today are that most of their children don't want to take over the family business, which was historically how businesses transferred from generation to generation. And they're left with the alternative since it's the primary source of potential wealth for them, particularly generational wealth. They choose to sell their company. And if they do so, they most often contract or engage with someone like myself as a business broker or we're specializing as lower middle market investment bankers. And we help them prepare their company for sale, package it, market it, and work with them to find a buyer for the business. So bring in all the experts, whether M and A attorneys or wealth managers or tax experts, and we literally hold their hand through the entire process because everybody thinks investment bankers are folks who just do contracts and mess around with numbers and percentages and dollars and negotiate. But about 50% of my job is what I refer to as Dr. Phil work. And that's actually the most rewarding part of the job. Selling a business for a business owner is a very stressful process. It's a roller coaster ride. It's, that's nine or ten months long and it's very difficult for these owners, because that business is their baby, it's been their life. And so we spent a lot of time coaching them and helping them see the right perspective to get through a very strenuous process.
[00:10:18] Speaker E: We had friends that sold a business recently and of course he's staying on as a consultant for a couple years. I think that's kind of normal, isn't it?
[00:10:25] Speaker A: Yeah, it is very normal for most buyers of businesses to want some level of risk mitigation through an ongoing relationship with that previous owner of the business, some capacity, because they know the insides and outs of the business and they often have strong customer relationships as well as employee relationships and they want that knowledge transfer as the new buyer of the business.
[00:10:48] Speaker E: So is it really a lot more difficult if you don't start your business thinking, I'm going to sell this in 10 years? If you start your business thinking, this is a lifestyle business that I'm just going to do for the rest of my life till I retire and I'm not going to worry about all the things I need to do to sell it until I hit 64, whatever. I mean, I know some people start their business with the intent to sell. How hard is it to make the ch.
[00:11:11] Speaker A: Unfortunately, the vast majority of people don't think about the end in mind, but they start the business and that is a key problem. Look, it's a sad fact, but every business owner is going to leave their business one day and they'll have the choice to leave it standing up or laying down. And I taught for a while a course for the Small Business Administration at a local college here at the Kansas City Market. And that's one of my. My core subjects was if you're going to start a business, if you're in an early stage of a business, start that business with an end game in mind. And most business owners don't understand that there are differences between running a business just to take an income or some profits or avoid paying taxes or run some personal expenses through the business. There are differences from running a business that way than there are with a target of creating value so that you will be able to sell that business at the end of the day. And you mentioned another key buzzword in the arena, which is a challenge for folks. Many business owners who come to us say, I want to sell my business don't really have a sellable company because they really have what's called a lifestyle business. So I mentioned earlier on the program here I was a consultant. That was a lifestyle business. That business was solely dependent on my knowledge and my network, there was nothing to sell. If I went away, so did the knowledge of the business. And many business owners don't have a true sustainable business that operate without them there. If they get hit by the proverbial bus, there's no income coming in. And they're shocked with this because many of them make a whole lot of money, but it's still a business that is solely dependent on them as an individual.
[00:12:47] Speaker D: And I think one of the interesting things is that one of the advantages of being an entrepreneur is that you can build an asset. So if you are working for somebody else, you're adding value to the shareholders of building an asset for the owners of the company. But if you're the owner of the company or you're part of a management team and you have ownership in the company, then you're not only generating income for yourself, but hopefully creating something that can be sold down the line. But what do you tell people who are solopreneurs or individual consultants that want to try to create a company that has asset value and can be sold? What kind of steps would they take to start making that transition?
[00:13:28] Speaker A: Well, the first thing is again to understand that if they're a solopreneur and it's essentially a lifestyle business, they have to recognize that fact to begin with, then they need to begin building out the company. And that's a challenge for a lot of these solopreneurs because if they're an S corp or a LLC pass through entity, the profits of the company are their income. And in order to build it out as a true sustainable business that will have value and be sellable, they have to invest back into that business. That usually involves bringing on additional employees, somebody who can be a successor to that individual. And it's a tough decision for many owners because they don't want to give up the profits or the income in the short term to invest into the company to build out for the long term and for that potential future generational wealth value, creating exit for the business.
[00:14:20] Speaker D: So how can an owner thinking about selling their business prepare for the sale of their business?
[00:14:25] Speaker A: Well, if they have a business that is going to be sellable, the first thing they need to think about is some kind of an event happens in the business and it creates a lot of stress for them or certainty or doubt and they just wake up one day and say that's it, I'm done, I'm selling. And that's the worst.
[00:14:41] Speaker D: That sounds like a terrible reason. I just got to get out of Here.
[00:14:45] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. Well, it happens all the time. It becomes a very spontaneous situation. They say, that's it, I'm ready to sell. I'm not going to do this anymore. I'm tired or I can't find more employees. Which is the thing we hear a lot today that's a challenge for business owners.
[00:15:01] Speaker D: What do you mean by that? You can't find employees? Is it because the unemployment rate is so low? Is that the issue? Or they can't find the right employees? What are they talking about there?
[00:15:10] Speaker A: Boy, that is a fascinating question. I could probably be filthy rich. You'd do a whole shawsh rehab. If I had the true answer to that. But I'll tell you, Richard, in our firm, we are industry agnostic. We represent business owners in about every imaginable business or industry, from heavy construction and mining operations to business services, SaaS, platform companies, digital marketing agencies, and in every business sector, business owners tell us that is one of the primary challenges that they have today. They either can't find employees to hire or they hire somebody and they don't show up for work or they hire them and some short period of time into the new employment, that employee ghosts them. A lot of business owners are frustrated because they feel that they could grow their business. For example, a road construction client that I had in Arizona, he said I could be growing my business 20% right now. I'd have to add an additional crew of 14 people. They paid above market wages for their employees employees, they had good benefits and they just couldn't find the workers to grow the business. It's an interesting phenomenon today that has really evolved, I think, during and post Covid, and it's changed the reasons why a lot of business owners choose to sell.
[00:16:25] Speaker D: Well, it's interesting given the times that we're in and the culture seems to be trying to bring jobs back to the United States. Yet on the other hand, we seem to have this issue where we're not really sure how people want to work after Covid. Right. I mean, Covid changed a lot of things. It created an environment where people kind of didn't work anymore and everything's changed. I'm not really sure that we've recovered from that yet.
[00:16:49] Speaker A: Yeah, I would say we have not based on the anecdotal input we get at our firm daily from business owners who call us saying, I think it's time for me to sell my company. And our first question for them is always, okay, why are you thinking about selling? And the reasons changed markedly post Covid pre Covid the majority of reasons business owners sold were the ones that everybody would suspect. I want to play more golf. I want to spend more time with my spouse. My spouse has been ill, I need to take care of him or her. I want to spend more time with the grandkids, I want to travel. We still do hear those. Don't get me wrong, but post Covid, many business owners, and again, we're talking a lot of aging out baby boomers as well. So they live through the severe economic downturn. They lived through Covid and they've just kind of reached a point where they don't have the same level of energy anymore. And the drivers are a lot of these demands around finding, hiring and retaining talent. Today, it's a national phenomenon across industries.
[00:17:50] Speaker E: And I think it's even harder to get people, if you want them physically in your space because I've tried to find some people for the studio that would come in part time maybe and help me run the studio so I don't always have to be here. So it's not dependent me. I'm trying eventually, I mean, I just opened it, but eventually I do want it to the point where it runs without me and then eventually I will sell it. That's my plan. But it's hard to find people that will come into a studio and stay here all day. And if I go on these different sites, I get all these people responding. Oh yeah, yeah. But they're in other countries and it's like, how are you going to come into my physically come into my studio? It's like trying to use these job sites. The filters don't work. You cannot filter them for people that are close to you that can physically come and work. So in terms of selling your business up, does that mean that you sell your team with the business? Do you sell it intact except for you? Like everybody that was working for you goes to this new person who bought it and you're the only one not there.
[00:18:42] Speaker A: Yep, that's essentially the case. You're selling the brand, the business model, the successful processes and systems that are in place that made the company successful and valuable to begin with. And certainly the employee population is part of that process. And as you mentioned earlier, most times buyers would like the owner to stay on first for generally a minimum of a year, sometimes longer. If the buyer happens to be a financial buyer, like a private equity firm or something, they may try to convince the owner to stay on and continue to own equity in the company, which for many business owners can be an extremely beneficial and profitable process. But yeah, all of the equipment. For example, in a road construction business, there are sometimes millions of dollars worth of equipment that go with the business because that equipment is what's going to be necessary for the business to continue to operate.
[00:19:36] Speaker D: Cameron Bishop, seasoned executive and entrepreneur and currently managing director of Rain Catcher, an award winning business broker service. Passage to Profit with Richard and Elizabeth Gerhardt. We'll be right back after this.
[00:19:49] Speaker G: Commercial break Let me tell you a story about Bill. Bill was a normal guy in his 50s. He had back surgery about two years ago.
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[00:21:50] Speaker F: Now back to passage to profit once again, Richard and Elizabeth Gearhart.
[00:21:54] Speaker D: We're talking with Cameron Bishop, the cupid of capitalism. He matches buyers and sellers. During the break we were talking with Cameron.
[00:22:02] Speaker E: I had asked Cameron, does somebody ever buy a business just to get rid of it? I've heard of this happening in the tech sector quite a bit where they buy a business and you can get the, the SaaS or whatever you're getting from it and all of a sudden you can't anymore because it got bought by somebody else. That would be pretty hard as a business seller, I think. Has that happened in your experience?
[00:22:21] Speaker A: Yeah, I have certainly seen cases where that has happened. I had a client that had a very high tech piece of testing equipment for the automotive industry. It's a husband and wife business and the husband was a brilliant engineer. He had seven patents and there were three other companies out there. They'd been through two patent infringement lawsuits, one of whom was a competitor. And that created a very delicate situation because we had to settle an IP patent infringement case prior to being able to enter any kind of negotiations when there's any kind of legal action. But when you get into the complexities of intangible IP related law and patents and trademarks, yeah, that can get really dicey. In an M and A scenario, yeah, we had to get that situation settled first. But then once you've done that, it's a very delicate selling process with a competitor looking at buying another competitor because you have to go what we call open kimono. You have to show all of your information. There's risks of not only stealing IP but also potentially losing key employees, especially if they're key knowledge holders like engineers that maybe also help design and develop later versions of IP related technology. So there could be a lot of reasons that are company specific or macro level. The uncertainty around whether you agree or disagree with a lot of the changes taking place today. The point is that it does change creates uncertainty and uncertainty right now is a factor that's a determinant and a consideration on whether to sell at this time.
[00:23:56] Speaker D: Cameron Bishop, seasoned executive and entrepreneur and currently managing director of Rain Catcher, an award winning business broker service.
[00:24:04] Speaker E: How do people find you?
[00:24:06] Speaker A: They can reach
[email protected] or they can always find me on LinkedIn. Check out our website, raincatcher.com that was.
[00:24:15] Speaker E: A great segue into our next segment which is IP in the news, right?
[00:24:18] Speaker D: And we're not talking about China, we're talking about the us. Our topic today is Amazon. We just happened to pick up an article recently that Amazon is now for the first time actually delivered a package in Arizona using drones. Right. And they've been talking about this for a long time, but they're actually testing it now. Brand new development. And so Elizabeth and I were kind of talking about, well, does this make any sense or not?
[00:24:46] Speaker E: I don't know if it makes sense. There's going to be drones flying everywhere because this is in under an hour. So can you imagine if everybody gets their orders in under an hour? I mean, I'm on Amazon ordering stuff all day. Right. So 8:00 o' clock in the morning.
[00:25:00] Speaker D: I think you're going to have, like a zone. Every drone every 10 minutes. Right.
[00:25:04] Speaker E: Personal drone flying back and forth. But it's pretty interesting. How is it going to affect everybody and the way things are done? I feel like instead of using gasoline to drive trucks to deliver things, now we're using electricity to drive drones to deliver things.
So where does the electricity come from? Well, we have these batteries. So where do the minerals come from? From the batteries? They come from other countries. Maybe we'll find a huge mineral deposit here. I think we have some in the United States, but it's kind of like going to be shifting.
[00:25:31] Speaker D: Yeah, the energy requirements are going to change a lot.
[00:25:34] Speaker E: Right. And that's just one thing. But also, like, the sky is going to be full.
[00:25:38] Speaker D: It's going to be full of drones.
[00:25:39] Speaker B: Drones.
[00:25:39] Speaker D: We wanted to talk about one of their patents, which I thought was just hilarious. A couple of years ago, they filed a patent on drone technology where the drone will recognize a human being's gestures. So if you walk out onto your lawn and wave the drone off, the drone will stop. Conversely, if you wave it in, the drone will come and land at your feet and deliver the package there. So a lot of really advanced, advanced technology.
[00:26:06] Speaker E: How does it know it's your package, though? It could be a porch pirate.
Hey, come over here.
[00:26:13] Speaker D: So anyway, we wanted to talk a little bit with our panel here about the thought of having packages delivered with drones. And so, Yasir, tell us what you think about this.
[00:26:24] Speaker B: I think ultimately, as battery technology and drone technology keeps improving, this is inevitable.
[00:26:30] Speaker D: So, Tory, what are your thoughts about all this?
[00:26:33] Speaker C: When it comes to hospitals getting blood or other vital kinds of things to patients who are at life and death, then I think that it might be practical. I might welcome those circumstances.
[00:26:46] Speaker D: Pam, what do you think?
[00:26:48] Speaker A: Well, I think drones are a fascinating tool. There's always going to be great uses for it, and I think you'll continue to see it grow.
[00:26:55] Speaker D: Well, there you go. And of course, Amazon has protected all of these innovations with patents and if you have an idea or invention that you want to protect, contact us at gearhartlight Law. We work with entrepreneurs worldwide to help them through the entire process of obtaining patents, trademarks and copyrights. You can also visit learn more about Patents.com or learn more about Trademarks.com for a free consultation or to download your free white paper on the subject of patents or trademarks. Or you can set up a consultation with a Gearhart Law attorney. Passage to Profit with Richard and Elizabeth Gerhardt. We'll be back right after this. Stay tuned. We have have secrets of the entrepreneurial mind coming up soon. You won't want to miss that.
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[00:29:37] Speaker F: Passage to profit continues with Richard and Elizabeth Gearhart.
[00:29:42] Speaker D: And now it is time for Elizabeth Elizabeth's Spotlight. Tell us about your projects, Elizabeth.
[00:29:47] Speaker E: Okay, well, I have a number of projects going on, all related to podcasting at this point in my life. Even the marketing work I'm doing for Gearhart Law is centering around video now, but also website optimization. So I do marketing for Gearhart Law, Richard. And I have this radio show and podcast. I have another podcast with Danielle Woolley called the Jersey Podcasts. And then I co host a meetup podcasting YouTube creators community, which meets once a month. But the most exciting news is we've been working on this video studio and the rest of this studio, we have five rooms up here for a year and trying to get it really high end and nice looking. I want to attract corporate businesses in to do podcasts in here. And it's done. And we had our grand opening and the mayor came and cut the ribbon and it was really fun and got a lot of interest in the studio. So now it's a matter of doing all this networking we were talking about and convincing people that a podcast really is the right thing for them. Which, if you're looking at the way Google's out algorithms just changed. They're taking podcasts into account now when they rank your website and video, you have to have video now and you have to be on YouTube. So I think we're in the right place at the right time. But the best part is I really love doing it and I love hearing people's stories. It's a lot of fun for me. That's what I'm doing now. And from there we're going to go on to the medical minute. So if you as a child get E. Coli, E. Coli can make this bacteria that's some sort of byproduct. It's called colobactin, and it actually goes into your colon and changes the cells. And it's really interesting. And so a lot of young people now are getting colon cancer before they're 50. And they were trying to figure out what is causing this. And now there's other factors too. They think environmental factors, but they think this E. Coli generated bacterium actually goes in and changes the DNA in your colon, causing some people to get colon cancer.
They don't have a solution yet, but at least they can identify some of the problems. So now the next step is to try to figure out how to stop this or how to cure it once it happens.
[00:31:49] Speaker D: One of the things that is interesting is that medicine seems to be a game of Whack a mole. Right? As soon as we feel like we have one disease, conquered or controlled at least to some degree, a new one pops up. So just out of nowhere. Now, colon cancer is increasing in younger people, and it looks like we have a medical explanation for how that's happening, but we don't have a cause yet. Right. We don't know why that DNA is.
[00:32:15] Speaker E: Being changed or how to stop it.
[00:32:17] Speaker D: But they how to stop it.
[00:32:18] Speaker E: But that's the first step, though. Now, if you're a younger person listening to this, you know, you may want to get checked out, because E. Coli is everywhere all the time. If you find out you have it early enough, you can take care of it. Anyway, let's go on to our next guest. I'm so excited to hear about this. Satori Shakur, master storyteller, multidisciplinary artist, social entrepreneur. The secret society of twisted storytellers. What is this all about?
[00:32:45] Speaker C: In 2012, six years after my mother and my son passed away, within nine months of each other, of course, I was a dead woman walking. I was in the depth of hell. And I crawled back. I noticed six years later I had crawled back, and I was feeling the desire to live again, to create. I'm an artist and a writer. And I, in Detroit, where I live, had suffered emergency medical management, Flint water crisis, water shutoffs, people leaving the state to find employment. Because this was following the crash of Wall street, the tax base was sparse. They were trying to attract more people into Detroit, and gentrification was taking place. So when I looked around, I could identify with Detroit. Detroit and myself are the same. We're coming back. And I was flying around the country. The Moth. There's an organization in New York called the Moth where they tell stories. And I was my story of grief and loss. And I think I was in Austin, Texas, and I remember I could hear a pin drop, and the people were leaning forward, waiting for my next word. And it just dawned on me. You're a storyteller. And once the story was over, groups of people would come up to me and want to talk to me about their grief and loss. Then I got emails from all over the world thanking me, like, this was a story service. Now, I had always known I was a storyteller, but storyteller isn't a thing. It's not like doctor, lawyer, nurse. It's not a category of career. So I. I just, you know, it was like breathing. You don't get a job as a breather. So I didn't think storyteller is anything but. I decided to create this platform called the Secret Society of Twisted Storytellers. And it came to me one day while I was sitting in a friend's garden. Garden. I was still had all my furniture and everything in storage because I was still trying to find my future. And the idea was really delicious. I had no money, but then I figured out, oh, okay, let me sell these seats in advance. So I sell 45 seats in advance, rented a little place for 150 bucks, and it was sold out. And each month following, the audience would grow. We'd have to find another venue. And now it's 13 years later. We've had dignitaries on our stage, every kind of human being, every walk of life, but the Secret Society of Twisted Storytellers. The name came from a short story that I'd written. So secret means story. A story you haven't told.
Because if you're a human being and we don't know your story, you're someone that looks good and smells good, but we don't know you. And I wanted people to know each other. I wanted people to walk into the Whole Foods and go, I heard your story. How is your mother doing? Doing, or, I'm so proud of your son. He just got his master's degree.
So the story coming from the community of people was fodder for the beginning of a conversation, the beginning of a connection, a human connection. Twisted means human, you know, and we're trying to unravel our humanity through the telling of a story.
We have a global mission to connect humanity, heal and transform community, and to provide an uplifting, thought provoking, soul cleansing experience through the art and craft of storytelling. And as we're developing stories and storytellers, we're also developing listeners. Our attention span nowadays is very short. But if you can engage the craft, the art and the science of storytelling, if I can show people how to tell their stories, the brain then gets engaged. And if the brain is engaged, then we have hormones like ostatos and dopamine, which creates a sense of empathy. And that's what you want when you're telling a story. We've had people on our stage, transgender people, for example, on our stage. And then I'd get calls from men, particularly black men, who said, I've never been this close to a transgender person. And I'd laugh thinking you just didn't know.
[00:36:56] Speaker E: So true.
[00:36:56] Speaker C: They said, I could identify because this particular woman, she would get pulled over by the police and harassed, and they could identify. So storytelling breaks down generational Barriers, racial barriers, gender barriers. And you have an empathy for the human being going through this experience.
And because we. I can't live your life, Elizabeth or Cam. I can hear your story, and I can become a passenger on your journey and learn what you learn. I can benefit from your experience. So I see the story as a gift that we give to the audience.
[00:37:33] Speaker E: If somebody has gone through something and they think they're the only one that's ever happened to, if they hear somebody else's story who went through something like it, then they don't feel so alone. That's why we have to share.
[00:37:44] Speaker C: Absolutely. I tell my storytellers all the time. Once you share your story, you're creating a community in the wake of your words. And I believe that listening is a revolutionary act. There is an absence of listening, but listening, actually, it's a voluntary thing. Thing. We can't make people listen to us. But what it does is grant being to another person. And at the highest level, I do believe listening is love because it takes something to listen. And when I host the events, I tell the audience every month. You have a job. Your job is very hard. You have to listen. You have to give up your assessments, your judgments, and just be with the storyteller and their job journey.
[00:38:26] Speaker E: That's really good advice. I wanted to ask Cameron if he had any thoughts or comments.
[00:38:30] Speaker A: You know what? I love the whole concept of what you are doing. I'm a storyteller, too. I'm a journalism school graduate and did lots of writing. I had published poetry. But connecting back to our earlier discussion about networking, when I'm sitting down with somebody for the first time, the best way to get to know them is to say, hey, tell me your story. And I love people. I love hearing from people. They have fascinating stories, but it's a great way to develop that ongoing connection.
[00:38:57] Speaker D: Well, stories build trust, right?
[00:38:59] Speaker C: There's even more trust because now I'm human, I'm not perfect. And that opens up the door for another person to invite them to share their vulnerabilities, their mistakes, where they fail, which I believe failure is the platform to success. So it encouraged us to let down our guard and not have to be perfect and protect ourselves.
[00:39:21] Speaker E: Well, I wanted to ask you something related to that story because you are a very professional speaker. I didn't hear any filler words at all.
No ums or ahs or losing your train of thought, do you have to practice a lot? Practice your speaking skills? Practice the story before you tell it? Or are you one of those People that could just go in cold and do it very well the first time.
[00:39:41] Speaker C: At this point, I can just go in cold because I come from a long line of storytellers, old black women from the Alabama, Mississippi, Jim Crow South. That's the way they communicated. In fact, storytelling is the most effective, delicious delivery system of information and ideas.
So I know my niche, I know my craft. I love words. I'm a writer, so I don't need filler words because I'm creating the conversation in front of you.
[00:40:09] Speaker E: So do you help other people tell their stories? Do you coach people?
[00:40:12] Speaker C: That's part of my business.
I fell into it understanding that everybody has a story. Everyone does not know how to tell their own story.
We do have talking heads. We have other people who represent us telling our stories. We have polls that say something that we kind of get close to how we think. But the best person to tell your story is yourself. And everybody doesn't have that facility. They don't know what to leave in, what to take out. They don't know what's important.
They don't even know that there are extraordinary human beings. I don't want to brag on myself, bragging, brag, it's part of your truth. So yes, I had to start teaching, facilitating storytelling workshops. So my clients are Duke University, University of Michigan, faith based organization. I just got a contract with a governmental agency for Medicaid recipients to tell their stories. I work with mothers to impact maternal mortality. I've gone to Washington D.C. to facilitate storytelling workshops, workshop, you know, with the A, you know, ARP for domestic violence, for ending domestic violence and domestic abuse. So people hire me to do storytelling workshops that address whatever issues they want to address. Some people just want to learn how to tell their stories. Maybe an attorney wants to know how to do an opening or closing argument, somebody. It's all kinds of reasons people want to be able to learn how to tell a story or use a workshop to bring their employees together. Because you can work side by side with people for years and not know anything about them. So let's get together and then there's automatically there's some kind of affinity for your co worker. You're more than just somebody I sit next to and go to lunch with and talk on the surface with. You're actually a human being I could care about about. To me, that's networking, definitely.
[00:42:11] Speaker D: So Tori, do you remember your first story that you told? Do you remember the first time you told a story?
[00:42:17] Speaker C: Probably when I was a little kid, I made up an imaginary Friend named Larry. Because I noticed that my brothers would get away with a lot of stuff that my sisters and I didn't get away with. So I created a boy avatar, I guess. And so if they said, well, who did such and such, I would go lay Larry.
But they became concerned about my imaginary friend, you know, So I think they took me to a child psychologist, Larry. And I could tell better stories. They called them stories, but actually they were lies. So my first stories were really lies to protect myself from my family's disapproval.
[00:42:58] Speaker E: Have you ever had somebody tell a story on your stage that just blew you away?
[00:43:03] Speaker C: Many, many, many, many people I work with each storyteller one hour a week plus a rehearsal before they take my stage.
So I have storytellers, big marines who had gone to Vietnam that cry through the process. They blow me away because human beings blow me away with their humanity, with their courage, with their willingness to love, with their willingness to give. So I've had people on my stage, a gentleman that went to prayer prison for 36 years for a crime they didn't do and finally was released. Finally. And he had no malice, just very forgiving. He travels around the country and the world now speaking.
[00:43:45] Speaker E: This is really a great service you're doing for everybody. How do people find you?
[00:43:50] Speaker C: You can Visit my website, satorishakur.com and from there you can go to twistedtellers.org which is the storyteller event. And I have a link tree on my website and you can find me in all my social media habitats.
[00:44:06] Speaker E: And could you spell your name?
[00:44:07] Speaker C: S A T O R I S H A K O O R dot com.
[00:44:15] Speaker E: Great, thank you.
[00:44:16] Speaker D: Passage to Profit with Richard and Elizabeth Gerhardt.
[00:44:19] Speaker E: So now we are going to move on to somebody who helps us with our everyday computer problems and more. So Yasir Dabu with Taza Taa Z the founder and he builds custom software solutions which if you're running a business, you probably need at some point. So yes sir. Can you tell us what that means?
[00:44:41] Speaker B: Usually if you look at the technology ecosystem, there's software that you can buy off the shelf, like Zoom, we are using right now for our conversation. You can just pay a little bit of subscription. We are the company that would build a platform like Zoom for entrepreneurs and other businesses that need to build something unique and innovative. So we are a software product engineering company. We basically help build SaaS platforms or help existing businesses innovate using technology.
[00:45:08] Speaker D: How does somebody decide whether to commission custom software solution rather than trying to pick and choose available solutions that maybe are already on the market and could potentially be combined.
[00:45:22] Speaker B: I think it is a build versus buy kind of decision. And we largely sell to businesses, so we don't offer direct to consumer end products. We sell to other businesses and usually they buy an ERP or CRM like Salesforce or they may have other things that they use, but they may have a very unique process that they may need to solve for. And that's where we come in. These days we do a lot of work with AI. I mean it's great to have a chatbot, but using your data to actually help drive business decisions and helping streamline your operations is where we come in. Usually our, our buyers have already gone through the journey of hey, I want to solve this problem. I've looked everywhere, nobody has built it. So it's either funded founders who have unique ideas or businesses that are facing operational inefficiencies or want to innovate into a new line of business. So that's where this really comes into play.
[00:46:11] Speaker E: So you've covered just about every business on the face of the earth with that.
[00:46:16] Speaker B: That creates a very hard marketing problem for us because that's why we have to kind of focus on specific verticals where we can specialize. So.
[00:46:24] Speaker E: So do you work with AI agents at all?
[00:46:27] Speaker B: Yes, we do.
[00:46:27] Speaker E: I would love it if you could explain that a little bit because I heard the term a few months ago and I watched a webinar on it which froze halfway through and I couldn't keep watching it.
It's like, wait a minute, this is a high tech webinar. But I think a lot of people don't really understand yet what Those are.
[00:46:42] Speaker B: As LLMs, which is. Which is the technology right now that's causing a lot of disruption. Start comprehending natural language language and being able to give you somewhat meaningful answers with. There's still challenges with that in some parts and they're getting better each day. Now you can ask it a question and it gives you a reasonable response. It's really think of it like the next version of Google which summarizes the content but it also has some comprehension and reasoning along with it. Because it can summarize that answer based on that, you can now tell it to do things right. That's where it becomes agenda tick where one of simple use cases. We believe that in a year two, I don't know, everybody will have their own personal AI assistant which hey, book me a ticket to this right now you go to Expedia or you go to booking.com or wherever, then you search for the flights and filter it. Either you do it or somebody does it for you.
Down the road, an agent can actually go to the site and do that for for you. And those are already in early stages of testing. So what it does is it becomes like an agent. You don't need a programmer like myself to build those things, which would have been true 10 years ago. Now you can actually coach these agents and spin them out to do work for you on things that are mundane or there's different things these agents can be used. So essentially an agent is still software that runs like a program, just like Zoom or any other tool that we use. But it does things somewhat semi autonomously without having to be explicitly coded to do that. Right. Coding till two to three years ago was if you needed it to do something, you would hire a programmer or programming company like ours that would write explicitly, do this, then do this. It's very deterministic. Now you can kind of guide an agent, hey, browse this website and do these. And the agents can actually then coordinate and do that at a very rudimentary level. An agent is piece of software that can really do what normal software does. But the way you build those is using AI technologies like LLMs and things like that.
[00:48:43] Speaker D: Yeah. Sir, you mentioned during your discussion that previously you would do the programming and now AI is able to help or assist with some of that. How has your company changed over the last couple of years with the introduction of artificial intelligence?
[00:49:01] Speaker B: I think the kind of problems we're solving right now has changed. There's a lot of problems that would require a lot of programming in the past. Now you can actually change that whole interaction. For example, booking an airline ticket, you go to an Expedia or you go to a kayak and you go through this whole search process. And now you can simply talk to an agent and say it still requires programming. Our company is basically looking at it. Instead of it taking you 30 minutes to book a ticket, now you can say, hey, my agent, you already know my preference. I'd like to travel this airlines. I have my loyalty points here. Here's my preferred times. I don't like to get up at 3am and go to the airport for a 5am flight. It has all your preferences and then it finds the flight within your price range within a minute and saves you a lot of time. So we've been moving more towards building these workflows for companies. A lot of it within companies requires proprietary data and their internal data to understand it. So that's where we are building systems that kind of layer up on that. So our shift, not in the few years, actually more in the last 12 to 18 months, has been we incorporate this innovation and help businesses become more efficient. So that's how AI is shifting.
[00:50:10] Speaker E: So are you building custom GPTs inside businesses for their own data?
[00:50:15] Speaker B: Yes, we are.
[00:50:15] Speaker E: I've heard that quite a number of businesses are starting to do that now and they want to have data that's reliable. Because a lot of the data on the Internet that the GPTs find is wrong.
[00:50:24] Speaker B: Yes.
And you have to understand, while it is still artificial intelligence, it's not actual intelligence. It's a statistical mathematical model that tells you the highest probability what the next word should be. Does it truly know the meaning? Even OpenAI doesn't know the answer to that. So it seems to mimic us really well based on the knowledge that we have created on the Internet. So we still need to validate it and, you know, stop it from giving false answers. So we take a lot of businesses proprietary data and protect it. So that, because that's going to be the asset of the future is businesses need to protect their data.
[00:50:56] Speaker D: It's interesting though, I did a search recently trying to find out how many patents Twitter had, or it used to be Twitter, now it's X and the software. The first time I answered the question, it came back with about 2, 500 patents. And I asked the question again and then it came back with 2000. And so that's one of the things about artificial intelligence is that sometimes the values that you get are not entirely consistent, consistent. Even if the question is essentially the same, how does that happen? And given that how much can we really rely on AI to make important decisions?
[00:51:35] Speaker B: I would say it's not accurate. That's why there's a industry term that they call hallucination, which, which basically speaks to the problem that you have. Why it happens is truly the answer is because of the complexity of how these neural networks are set up up to respond to an answer. They can take different pathways on a probabilistic model, it's probability. That's why it's not 100% predictive.
[00:51:59] Speaker D: Does that mean then that AI is never really going to be able to give consistent results? Because there is an actual true numerical value to the question that I answered.
[00:52:10] Speaker B: And that's why we augment it with real data. There are rag pipelines and there's things that you can do, which is what we build is to then augment it with the real data and actually put controls in Place to validate some of that data against data source to check for the true value. Will it get better? It probably will. I mean, the way things are moving, I'd be surprised if every six months it doesn't get better and the amount of money being poured into it, I believe that they will continue making this better. It may be that they have to shift the way they do things the way it's currently done with large language models. There has to be some other innovation to really take it to that next level as much, I guess.
[00:52:50] Speaker E: Do you think that people would put information on the Internet for these GPTs to find that is wrong on purpose? More people are getting podcast content on YouTube than anywhere else these days. And I did actually see some empirical research that somebody presented at a conference. That is true. But what if it wasn't true and Google put that out there and the GPTs found that and said, hey, Google's beating Spotify at the podcast game. Do you think people are purposely doing that?
[00:53:16] Speaker B: Humanity has a lot of empathy and kindness on one side, but there is, there is a nefarious side to us, unfortunately, it comes as a package, just like everything else. Right. We're talking about drones, efficiency and goodwill. And there is a side to us that we have to acknowledge and accept. So to your point earlier, you mentioned that you were looking for jobs for people to come into the office and the filters don't work. It's not that the filters don't work. It's because people are purposely obfuscating the data that the filter should look at. So they're lying. I'm in the US or I can work in the US even though they might be sitting in Philippines or India or somewhere else. I'm not picking on those countries. I'm just saying if the data is wrong, your filters are not going to work. So I think there's a lot of people trying to figure out how to feed into these chat engines, AI engines, to probably spit out an answer that's biased or favorable to them. I mean, right now, just like we used to do SEO, now people are like hyper marketing. How do you feed it into LLMs as they're crawling the web? So the AI doesn't know the difference.
[00:54:12] Speaker E: Yeah, I got in a fight with the AI because I said, why is Gearhart Law considered a top law firm? And said, well, I don't think that you've got that right or whatever. I said, well, then how come it got these awards? And it's like, well, and I forget what it said after that. But it was pretty funny. I mean, because obviously Garrett Law is not this huge law firm and that's what it was looking for, was huge law firms. But yeah, so I kind of got in this back and forth with it. So I think there's different ways you can put data in there to manipulate it if you really want to. Right?
[00:54:41] Speaker B: That's true. Just like txt or you know, the robots file that had for SEO and crawling websites for Google now you can provide actual content.
[00:54:49] Speaker E: It sounds like you have an incredible depth of knowledge with what's going on in the software world today. And you're using that to help companies get the software they need to be competitive in today's marketplace. Really. So how do people get ahold of you?
[00:55:03] Speaker B: There's a website, taza.com, t a a z a.com started the company 15 years ago with the idea of take a fresh approach every time. That's what Taza means in many languages images, by the way. And I'm also on LinkedIn, so I try to avoid the other social media platforms for, for my own mental sanity. But. But I am on the website as well as on LinkedIn.
[00:55:23] Speaker E: Excellent. Well, thank you, listeners. You are listening to the Passage to Profit show with Richard and Elizabeth Gearhart and our special guest, Cameron Bishop. Fascinating discussions today. We've kind of been around the map with the different topics that we've talked about, but don't go away because Secrets of the Entrepreneurial Mind is coming up and this is where people really speak. Spill the beans.
[00:55:43] Speaker D: We'll be right back after this. Commercial break.
[00:55:45] Speaker F: Man, I had a rough night's sleep, boy. I got a letter from the IRS yesterday and I. I just couldn't sleep, man. I'm dying here. Somebody help me. IRS problems affect more than just your finances. If you're ready to take back control of your life and you owe more than $10,000, you need to call the tax doctor. Their expert staff can immediately protect you from the IRS and state collectors and get you the best possible tax settlement guaranteed. The IRS has recently released new programs geared in helping struggling taxpayers where you may qualify to settle your tax debt and wipe out up to 85% or more of what you currently owe. If you owe $10,000 or more in back taxes, call the tax doctor right now. See if you qualify to pay less.
[00:56:29] Speaker G: 800-262-1926-800226-21926.
800-262-1926. That's 800-262-1926.
[00:56:44] Speaker F: It's passage to Profit.
[00:56:46] Speaker D: Now it's time for Noah's retrospective.
[00:56:49] Speaker E: Noah Fleischman is our producer here at Passage to Profit, and he just has a way of putting his best memories in perspective.
[00:56:56] Speaker I: If you went to grammar school when I did, there's a book you probably loved and never forgot. It was a book called Danny Dunn and the Homework Machine. It was written all the way back in the 50s, but in my time it was actually still relevant. Wow. A computer where you could actually ask the question into the machine and it would just answer it for you. You hear that, Siri? Oh, Siri's not here. She's with my wife right now on her smartphone. I still actually use one of these little flipper devices. I can get away with it for now. But you know something? I really couldn't see myself having Siri or any kind of a device where you talk into something every time you need an answer. I actually like to be curious. I use search engines, but I also love to go to the library. I love being around the books. Curiosity is a beautiful thing. I think it was one of the Greek philosophers that actually said that the quest for knowledge, curiosity is in a lot of ways more valuable than knowledge itself. I can't seem to remember which philosopher it was that actually said that, but I could probably ask Siri when she and my wife get home.
[00:57:57] Speaker F: Now more with Richard and Elizabeth. Passage to Profit.
[00:58:01] Speaker E: Our special guest, Cameron Bishop. And just incredible discussions we've been having. But now it's time to spill the secrets. So this is Secrets of the Entrepreneurial Mind and Cameron Bishop, I'm going to start with you. What's a secret you can share?
[00:58:15] Speaker A: I'll give you a couple thoughts on that one. It's probably not often associated with being an entrepreneur, but I would say having been one numerous times in my career. Career resilience is a very underrated attribute that is a mandatory criteria for a successful entrepreneur because there are so many pitfalls involved in starting a business. Beyond that, two key mistakes that business owners make with their companies. One is that the vast majority of business owners spend 95 or more percent of their time working in the business business and 5% or less of their time actually working on the business. And as a business, as an investment banker who represents business owners, there are about five critical mistakes that we see company owners make. Number one, first and foremost, we see this so often is they have terrible accounting and if they don't have good accounting, they're not going to to sell. I had a client situation where the owner called me said, we want to sell.
Well, what are your revenues? What's your financial picture? I said, well, we're doing about $6 million in revenue and about $1.5 million in profit. And once one of my partners went through the numbers with a fine tooth comb, not only were they not making $1.5 million, but they were literally a break even company. So again, accounting has to be important. That is a mandatory criteria for a successful entrepreneur to understand, to have a successful business and hopefully someday to have a wealth generating exit.
[00:59:55] Speaker E: Wow, that was a great secret. Satori Shakur. What is your secret?
[01:00:00] Speaker C: My secret is push past where you normally stop.
All human beings get stopped. They're discouraged, a pandemic may happen, happen. They may have death in their family or they're just insecure.
Things will happen and you'll stop. And so push past where you normally stop and use everything to change your mindset. Use every no, every yes, every word of encouragement and put it into a new mindset. And it's a challenge to oneself. Push past where you normally stand. Stop and use everything to change your mindset.
[01:00:41] Speaker E: Yeah. Well, congratulations for keeping it going. Yes sir. You soon to boo. What is your secret?
[01:00:47] Speaker B: The biggest one is hiring the right people. Culture and people are the most important aspects when you hire. So you need to find culturally aligned people with the right skill set.
[01:00:57] Speaker E: That's excellent advice. I guess mine is a secret we all learned as little kids. Make new friends, but keep the old. One is silver, the other is gold.
Anyway, people that I've known for years and years and years came to this grand opening and I had seen them off and on through the years and it was just really nice to have these relationships for so long with people in the business community and to be able to see them. So I think that relationships in business are super important. I think all of us have acknowledged that. So don't neglect the relationships. Keep those going.
[01:01:29] Speaker D: That's great. Passage to Profit is a nationally syndicated radio show appearing in 38 markets across the United States. In addition, Passage to Profit has also been recently selected by Feedspot Podcasters Database as a top 10 entrepreneur interview podcast. Thank you to the P2P team, our producer, Noah Fleishman, and our program coordinator, Alicia Morrissey, and our studio assistant, Marisa Kat Bussari. Look for our podcast tomorrow anywhere you get your podcasts. Our podcast is ranked in the top three globally. You can also find us on Facebook, Instagram X and on our YouTube channel. And remember, while the information on this program is believed to be correct, never take a legal step without checking with your legal professional first. Gearhart Law is here for your patent, trademark and copyright needs. You can find
[email protected] and contact us for a free consultation. Take care everybody. Thanks for listening and we'll be back next week.
[01:02:27] Speaker C: Weekend.
