[00:00:00] Speaker A: We pioneered cardiac catheterization on an 18 wheel truck.
[00:00:04] Speaker B: Boom. There's clarity in the problem. There's clarity in the solution.
[00:00:07] Speaker C: I'm Richard Gearhart.
[00:00:08] Speaker D: And I'm Elizabeth Gearhart. You just heard some snippets from our show. It was a great one. Stay tuned to hear tips about how you can start your business.
[00:00:18] Speaker A: Ramping up your business.
[00:00:20] Speaker C: The time is near. You've given it heart, now get it in gear.
[00:00:25] Speaker A: It's Passage to Profit with Richard and Elizabeth Gearhart.
[00:00:29] Speaker C: I'm Richard Gearhart, founder of Gearhart Law, a full service intellectual property law firm specializing in patents, trademarks, and copyrights.
[00:00:37] Speaker D: And I'm Elizabeth Gearhart, not an attorney, but I do marketing for Gearhart Law and I have my own startups and podcasts.
[00:00:43] Speaker C: Welcome to Passage to Profit, the road to Entrepreneurship, where we talk with entrepreneurs and celebrities who tell their stories about their business journey and also share helpful insights about the successes that they've had.
[00:00:55] Speaker D: Did you know that 2 in 5Americans want to start a new business or are business owners? Well, we have lots of information to help them too.
[00:01:03] Speaker C: And we also talk a little about the intellectual property that helps them flourish. We have on our show Dr. Joe Puma, who is just an amazing physician. I went and visited his office not too long ago and it was an amazing experience. He's one of the top cardiologists in the world and he has lots of interesting things to tell you about your heart and cardiology.
[00:01:25] Speaker D: And then we have Diane Yu, who doesn't love having an investor on the show. She's a venture capitalist. She founded Phoenix Global, and she's going to talk about her investments and how this whole thing's working out.
[00:01:37] Speaker C: Great. But before we get to our distinguished guests, it's time for your new business journey. Two in five Americans are already business owners or are thinking about starting business. And we always like to ask our panel a question so that our listeners and audience can get to know the business landscape a little bit better. So today the question is, what are the dangers of being a yes person in business? So, Dr. Puma, welcome to the show. What are the dangers of being a yes person in the world of business?
[00:02:09] Speaker A: Well, Richard, thanks so much for inviting me. Elizabeth, good to see you. I think that's a great question. One of the challenges of being a yes person is it doesn't allow you to think through what you really want to accomplish or who you really want to be. Saying no or challenging the orthodoxy is what really allows you to determine where the opportunities are in business. Now if you just want to stay in the background, not be noticed and have some security in your job, keep saying yes until those days end.
[00:02:49] Speaker C: Well, it's really funny because what you say is absolutely true. It takes a lot of work to stand up for your opinions, not to mention a little bit risky, which I think you alluded to. But it takes a lot of energy. If somebody says, okay, well, we'll try it your way, that means usually you have to do it right. And so that's something that we need to keep in mind. Diane, welcome to the show.
[00:03:13] Speaker B: Thank you.
[00:03:13] Speaker C: We're definitely interested in hearing your answer to this question, which is, what are the dangers of being a yes person in a business?
[00:03:21] Speaker B: The two things. Number one is yes fails to provide critical feedback. And number two, it's an echo chamber. Yes creates an echo chamber of people that are more not wanting to talk, and it doesn't create, like, disruption for innovation.
[00:03:34] Speaker C: Those are good points, Elizabeth.
[00:03:36] Speaker D: I feel like yes men or yes women or whatever eventually get thrown under the bus. Like, something happens and the guy maybe two or three stories above you doesn't like what happened. And your manager is like, well, yeah, but she said it was okay to do so. She said, blame her and that, and then you get fired. But I also think it just stifles a person. You know, we're going to talk about an IP in the news, somebody that did something to get back at his employer, and you just kind of wonder, like, how many times does this guy shut down because he tried to say no instead of yes? Right.
[00:04:09] Speaker C: Well, I guess the moral of the story is don't be a yes person if you don't have to be. But still watch your P's and Q's. We all do have to cooperate to some degree.
[00:04:19] Speaker D: You need that paycheck. You can't say no.
[00:04:21] Speaker C: And if you need that paycheck. So, anyway, it's time now for our main guest interview. And I've been really enjoying my relationship with Dr. Uma. We've gotten to know each other a little bit over the last couple of weeks. First of all, just tell us about your practice, all the things that you've done, and all of the things that you're doing.
[00:04:40] Speaker A: I'm an interventional cardiologist. I spent the first half of my career living in North Carolina. I was on faculty at Duke Hospital and the Duke Clinical Research Institute. And so it was a combination of clinical practice, developed community networks in underserved communities with Duke as the centerpiece for tertiary care. But the goal was to try and bring cardiovascular care into communities. And as you know, North Carolina is a rural state, so we pioneered doing cardiac catheterization on an 18 wheel truck, bringing it to different communities.
[00:05:18] Speaker D: How did that work out?
[00:05:19] Speaker A: You know, Elizabeth, it's amazing what you can actually accomplish when you see a need, right?
[00:05:24] Speaker D: I mean, I just can't imagine having surgery in a truck.
[00:05:28] Speaker A: Well, it was pretty amazing. Listen, I won't take credit for any ideas, but these were other people's ideas or other people's businesses. What I will take credit for is being able to figure out what the needs of patients are in different communities and then looking what's out there in the marketplace and knowing how to utilize them. And that's what we've done. Richard at Soren Medical, Soren, I named after a priest, Father Edward Soren, who was the founder of the University of Notre Dame. I was inspired by his backstory and his history when my older daughter was an undergrad at Notre Dame. And his motto was be a force for good in this world. And I was very concerned about what was going to happen to patients and physicians after the Affordable Care Act. And so what I did was I took disparate technologies, AI software technology that's available, that was commercially available already, the best imaging camera that was made in the world and a process and system, and trademarked it and called it the Soren Heart Scan. And we are now the number one quality scan in America for eight quarters two years running. And the reason I'm on your show and the way we met is I've, in addition to that, coupled with that, as I'm an older physician now and thought I was set in my ways, recognized that I need to engage in patients with patients in a different way. I might not be able to change the law, but we can certainly change the way we engage with patients. And since then we have published improved outcomes, higher quality, greater access, lower cost than traditional cardiovascular care.
[00:07:10] Speaker D: So I'm just curious, do people need to come to your clinic in New York to get this or do you have it going around on trucks still? Or.
[00:07:16] Speaker A: I mean, we're working on now a model to put it on an 18 wheeler, but even through urban communities. And we're now working, and I'm glad to meet Diane today because we're working with investment bankers in private equity to now scale this on a national level.
[00:07:31] Speaker D: Because I love this mobile aspect of it. As you say, you see where the need is greatest and find a solution for that need, then you can go anywhere with it. Are you opening any Other storefronts like medical clinics for it.
[00:07:43] Speaker A: So we have about 25 office based facilities between Orange county and the boroughs in New York, including Inglewood, New Jersey. But our flagship, which is an ambulatory surgical center and where the Soarin heart scan sits is down on Wall street, right on the corner of Wall street in South Street. So the challenge in medicine as reimbursements go down, we're one of the only businesses from a business standpoint where every year we get paid less. And that's programmed into cms. You can't be an independent practice today and not figure out the business side. And so that's where we're at now, trying to figure out the. We think we have the business model figured out, we think we have the approach to marketing and patient engagement figured out. And now we're working on the financing for both fixed based sites as well as mobile labs. There's no reason you can't drive an 18 wheeler with a sore and heart scan into any community and do 25 or 30 sore and heart scan. And let's remember, heart disease is the number one killer. Doctors can only do two things for patients, make them feel better or live longer. And despite the promise of the Affordable Care act, the reality is in the last 14 years, survival in the United States has gone down. And that's not just from COVID So there's a lot of work we can do to improve the lives of our community, improve outcomes for patients. Just gotta be a little innovative and stop saying yes.
[00:09:18] Speaker C: Dr. Joe Puma, just an amazing physician. I went and visited his office not too long ago. One of the things that you mentioned before was the inexpensive nature of this superior heart scan.
[00:09:31] Speaker A: I don't want to be political, but politics are now in healthcare, right? In ways that we never imagined before. But let's go back to 2010. One of the major reasons for the Affordable Care act was to, in the words of the president at the time, flatten the curve on the rise of health care costs in the US in 2010, healthcare costs were at about 14% of GDP in the country. Where are we today? Over 20%. It's essentially the largest business in the world. Let me get back to your first question. First, a coronary CT scan, which can then give you, with that data and just a blood pressure and a cholesterol profile, it can give you a 10 year risk of heart attack, death or stroke. That's pretty valuable for men over 40 and women over 50. Okay. And we'll get not only assessment of the actual arteries, images of the arteries in your heart, plaque analysis, whether it's calcified, non calcified, at risk of a heart attack or not at risk. And if there is blockage, we'll get an assessment of if that blockage is severe and needs a coronary stent to clear it away or bypass. I try and deal with health and in a positive way. And yes, we always talk about everything with a background of diet and exercise, but I have to start looking at healthcare from a business standpoint. We think we have a better product, it's far less expensive, and we think it's both sustainable and scalable and improve health of any community that we're in, which is what's important to me. 75 to 80% of doctors now work for a health system, which means you're no longer employing them. Elizabeth when you see them, they're employed by the people that want them to say yes, let's keep that in mind. Right. Remember, HMOs are just a healthcare delivery payment system. The Affordable Care act is a healthcare delivery payment system. In an hmo, the goal was to constrain costs, right? And those companies did great. If you were a CEO of an hmo, you made a lot of money and the way they constrained cost is by not providing care, Right.
[00:11:39] Speaker D: And they didn't.
[00:11:39] Speaker A: And then okay.
[00:11:40] Speaker D: And then if you had to get it anyway and you paid for it and tried to get reimbursed, well, good luck.
[00:11:45] Speaker A: Listen, I'm not arguing that in a fee for service environment there are challenges where costs can get out of control. But we have proven now, when you take the doctor out of the equation and the patient loses choice, right, the rate of rise is higher and the quality of care is less. Of course, I can tell you there were already companies being formed for coronary ct. Will they have the quality of a sore and heart scan? I don't know. We're pretty good. We can figure out a way to make it economically viable and it's actually a great business model.
[00:12:20] Speaker C: Dr. Joe Puma, who is one of the top cardiologists in the world, Passage to Profit with Richard and Elizabeth Gerhart will be back after this.
[00:12:28] Speaker E: Commercial break if you've turned 65 recently, like me, it's important you find a Medicare Advantage plan that gives you the coverage you're looking for. But finding one can be difficult. The best thing I did, and I suggest you do the same, is call a licensed insurance agent and let them walk you through your Medicare Advantage plan options. There are so many benefits you have access to. So make the call now and let the representatives explain everything to you. Our licensed insurance agents can offer you a variety of Medicare Advantage plans. Plus, the call is free, the information is free, and there's no obligation to enroll. We're here to make it easy for you to select a Medicare Advantage plan that may work for your needs. Finding a Medicare Advantage plan can be easy if you do what I did. Make a quick call right now to learn more. Thank you.
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[00:14:29] Speaker E: Now back to passage to profit once.
[00:14:31] Speaker D: Again, Richard and Elizabeth Gearhart and our special guest, Dr. Joe Puma. And we've been having a spirited discussion about healthcare and he has developed this innovative low cost solution. And it's not even for when you're sick. It's a preventative solution. It just blows my mind how smart this guy is. But he also has a new venture he's starting called Check In.
[00:14:52] Speaker A: The Check in, it's a hip hop health series. The Check in reaches out specifically to the hip hop community because the rates of heart disease, the rates of high blood pressure, the rates of heart attacks and strokes are two to three times higher in black Americans compared to white or Asian Americans. The goal was just an entertainment type approach to bring stories to life around important healthcare issues, primarily cardiovascular health. And we've actually filmed actual procedures we do at Our ambulatory surgical center.
[00:15:23] Speaker D: Wow.
[00:15:24] Speaker A: Again using technology. We've worked with a startup and we are Amazoning healthcare. Go on our website sorinmedicalny.com there's a button that says a Soarin marketplace that's powered by a company called Superscripts. You click on it, it has a menu of tests or procedures including consultations to see the doctor. You put in your insurance information. Actually all you need to put in is basically two clicks. It'll tell you if your insurance covers it, it'll tell you what your co pay is, it'll tell you what if you've met your deductible and you could go right online and schedule your Sauron heart scan or consultation. So these are the ways that we're using technology, partnering with other companies to improve efficiency and workflow so that we can survive in this new healthcare environment.
[00:16:11] Speaker C: That's great. Dr. Joe Puma.
[00:16:14] Speaker A: Richard, thanks so much for inviting me. Elizabeth, good to see you.
[00:16:17] Speaker D: Passage to Profit with Richard and Elizabeth Gearhart.
[00:16:20] Speaker C: Time for Intellectual Property News.
[00:16:22] Speaker D: Oh, it is.
[00:16:23] Speaker C: What could be more interesting than intellectual property? Come on.
[00:16:25] Speaker D: So we were talking about people being yes men and getting so ticked off at the companies they worked for they couldn't take it anymore.
[00:16:33] Speaker C: They couldn't.
[00:16:33] Speaker D: What did somebody do about that, Richard?
[00:16:36] Speaker C: Well, this guy worked for Google. He was an engineer and apparently things didn't go quite right for him. Worked for Google for two years. He left and he took a bunch of confidential information and he posted it on the Internet. And what he was doing, I'm just going to read from the article by Blake Britton from Reuters. He said that he is going to tout his dominion over the secrets and social media posts and he was tagging competitors making threatening statements to the company including I need to take unethical means to get what I am entitled to and remembers that empires fall and so will you.
So anyway, obviously Google actually behaved pretty well. I know a lot of employers that would not behave as well. But they asked him a couple of times to please take down the information and he just got more stirred up and he posted more information. So finally Google had to sue him. I guess they sued him in Texas. They've even drawn more publicity to it because this has actually been in a couple of Newswire services. So it's a trade secret case and I guess the moral of the story is you can't really, you shouldn't really do that. But he was probably a yes man most of his Google career and he just popped blew a fuse. So Anyway, Diane, do you have any thoughts on this situation? I mean, what do you think? Does this happen very often in your experience?
[00:18:08] Speaker B: Absolutely. We see it, unfortunately. And also, people that want to take revenge have been ousted as CEOs, because maybe some investors or board members think that there needs to be new leadership. So we do see that.
[00:18:20] Speaker C: I don't know. If I were in that situation, would I just go quietly or would I vent my frustration at the world?
[00:18:28] Speaker D: Well, aren't your options pretty limited with just trade secrets? I mean, there are some things you can do about trade secrets, but if you have a patent, I know everybody gets to see the technology if you have a patent, but there's a lot more you could do with a patent.
[00:18:39] Speaker C: Right, so that's a good point. If the technology were protected with patents, it really probably wouldn't matter so much anyway. These secrets were like hardware, so they were chip designs, which probably were protected by patents. Google would protect that kind of stuff with a patent. And so putting trade secrets out there still is not a good thing. But it doesn't mean that the competitors get to use the technology. Right. So, Dr. Puma, what do you think?
[00:19:07] Speaker A: Well, I think, as Diane says, there's many disgruntled employees. You know, the workplace could be frustrating, and sometimes they have legitimate complaints. However, I mean, it's kind of like your girlfriend throwing all your stuff out the third floor window. I mean, it's like, come on, man.
[00:19:26] Speaker D: Well, it's a tricky one. I mean, I can see how people get upset and they want to spill the secrets. All these fights we're having now, if you come up with an idea. Well, if you work for someone like Google, you sign away your rights to your ideas, right?
[00:19:37] Speaker C: Right. You get this lavish paycheck and incredible benefits. You're hired to invent for the company, so the company should own it, right?
[00:19:46] Speaker D: Right. So that's why so many people want to be entrepreneurs. Right? Because they want to own it. So if I wanted to learn more about patents, is there a way?
[00:19:53] Speaker C: Yes, as a matter of fact, there is. You can go to learnmoreaboutpatents.com and download a free white paper, or you can book a consultation with one of our attorneys at Gearhart Law. That's learn more about patents.com. we'll be back with more passage to Profit right after this. And stay tuned. We're going to be hearing about secrets from the entrepreneurial mind coming up soon.
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[00:22:17] Speaker A: Passage to profit continues with Richard and Elizabeth Gearhart.
[00:22:21] Speaker C: I just want to point out that Passage to Prophet is nationally syndicated on 38 radio stations across the country, and it's been ranked in the top 3% of podcasts globally by listen notes. And It's a top 10 interview podcast for entrepreneurs according to Feedspot database. Elizabeth, it's time for you to tell us what you're up to.
[00:22:45] Speaker D: I'm wearing my many hats, of course. I love doing this show. I learned so much. That's one thing I love. And then I'm doing another podcast with Danielle Woolley. I had a sick cat that we could not find a cure for, so we started a podcast about cat health. It's our little Meow Cast. It's called the Jersey Pod Cats podcast and we just talk about cat issues. It's pretty fun. And then I also, about a year ago, Richard and I have a building in New Jersey and we're trying to think of what to do with it since everybody stayed remote since COVID So I said, why don't we rent out the podcast studio that we were using during COVID that's on the top floor, it's two floors. And Richard was like, okay, go ahead. So we looked at it. Yes, you can make money running podcasts. So we're remodeling the whole thing and we're getting help. We're doing some of the work ourselves, but we're getting as much help as we can. But you know, it's hard to get people to come and do work like that. So anyway, we're getting close to having that done. But I dove into the podcast world. So one thing I did before we started this work was to start a meetup called podcast and YouTube creators community so that we could see there was any local interest, because meetups are people that are close by. And I started it with Stacy Sherwin and we decided to make it hybrid. So it's part zoom, part people showing up in person. And we've been getting a great response to it. And it's just Stacy and me talking about what we had to do to start our podcast. We've already got almost 300 people signed up, and this one is zoom only. It just shows there's a huge interest in this area. So that's really what I've been working on. And I'm going to be teaching a class just at the adult school of the Chathams about very, very low level podcasting, like very intro to podcasting in the spring.
[00:24:24] Speaker C: So you're quite the communicator.
[00:24:27] Speaker D: Am I? I can say a lot at once. So enough about that. Now we want to go into the medical minute. This is a new segment that we put in the show and it's really cool because we have Dr. Puma here, we have Diane here, who invests in different companies, and I want to talk a little bit about some new research that's happening using AI that's very, I find, very exciting. So Dr. Puma knew all about this. I never heard of this place. The Wellcome Sanger Institute in the uk. Can you talk about where they came from?
[00:24:57] Speaker A: Sure. The Wellcome Sanger Institute is a nonprofit and it's essentially the nonprofit arm of. Was it Harry or Henry Wellcome who was kind of the UK's version of the Pfizer brothers here in the United States. It's now, in this iteration, the GlaxoSmithKline. It was sold to, but he was a pharmaceutical entrepreneur, invented different compounds. And the Sanger Institute that they fund is working on the human genome.
[00:25:26] Speaker D: Right. And it's really interesting. So they're using AI now to predict, design, and engineer biological sequences such as DNA and proteins. Right now, they're mapping 1.6 million gut cells to find new ways to treat.
[00:25:39] Speaker C: Disease, looking at each one individually.
[00:25:41] Speaker D: But what I ran across was this blog post they did. The way they're using AI now is they combine 25 data sets. So I think in the past, you would had to have, like, a huge computer and take up many rooms to bring that much data together in one place. You could actually work with it and analyze it. And now they're using AI, and so they've brought together 25 data sets, and they've created the largest cohesive cell atlas of the human gut and uncovered a new way that stomach cells may play a role in inflammatory bowel diseases. Just fascinating. And when I was reading through the article, the blog post on this, they actually had a link to this atlas. So, like, anybody can go look at it, which I thought was really generous, I guess I should say.
[00:26:24] Speaker C: Yeah, sort of like the human genome, right. Where they just kind of published the library and made it available for everybody. Why not that for the gut biome too? Right. What I think is so interesting is the gut biome is now being appreciated for all of the impacts that it has on human health. And so understanding this, I think, is going to be a major step forward in health generally. Right. I mean, we had Martin Blaser and his wife, Maria Gloria Dominguez, on the program. They did that Netflix film called the Invisible Extermination. And they talked about how all of the studies that they did for the human biome showed that health deteriorated when people received too much in terms of antibiotics. The antibiotics would destroy the gut biome. It would rebuild itself, but it would do it in a way that was not as healthy. And diseases in general became more prevalent, and especially with younger children, underserved communities. People who had received too many antibiotics over the course of their life had higher incidences of obesity and heart disease and diabetes. And it's a really big problem now because physicians are so used to treating with antibiotics. It's just a standard treatment. And unfortunately, Dr. Blaser did not feel especially optimistic because there's really no way to control the prescription of these Drugs because people expect them and doctors want to prescribe them.
[00:28:01] Speaker A: Well, it's amazing what's happening now. This is what you would say is AI for good or technology for good? Because there's a big debate, and ethically there's a big debate. Morally, there's a good debate. However, if we go back 25, 30 years when the Human Genome Project was first being capitalized and taking place, right before the human genome was actually mapped. I remember being a young attending physician and we had this promise of targeted therapies for patients based on their genomics. And now you look in 2024, guess what? We have targeted therapies for different cancers. We have lung cancer survival rates now because of biologics that come from information from the Human Genome Project. Right. You know, you have 40, 50%, five year survival rates. It used to be 80%, one year mortality rates. Yes. You know, the same thing for psoriasis, eczema, biologics to treat these diseases now. So I think the promise, you know, from a large scale is making people live longer and feel better again. The two things we can do with targeted biologic therapy. But, you know, especially diseases like sickle cell, now we finally have, through genomics, targeted therapy for sickle cell disease, which is a devastating disease. But for a small population, right. There's probably 100,000 people that have it. So there is great promise. I know the gut's important, but the process that they used, if they can now apply it to different areas.
[00:29:33] Speaker D: Right.
[00:29:34] Speaker A: What the applicability might be. So I think it's an outstanding, truly amazing. Twenty years from now, we may not be taking pills for anything. We may be getting injectables. You know, who knows? I'm hoping in my lifetime no one needs bypass surgery again.
[00:29:49] Speaker D: I hope so. You know, when you talk about these different illnesses that people have, I love watching mystery diagnosis. And I'm like, I didn't even know that could happen to a person. Right. Like having this kind of knowledge to be able to use is amazing.
[00:30:01] Speaker C: So, Diane, do you have any thoughts about AI and medical technology?
[00:30:07] Speaker B: I want to focus it back on Dr. Joseph Puma. I think his technology is incredible. Three minutes, three minute scan and what you guys have achieved. I'm curious, you know, two questions. How will the role of AI shape and create a big opportunity for investors for your technology?
[00:30:23] Speaker A: You know, the companies that develop the AI usually have a pretty strong IP firewall. And that's why I'm not sure that government's going to play this is. These are places where politics may not play a role except for the fact that politics has the purse strings. Okay, because now all these health systems work for the government. But you know, what is AI essentially but A, accumulated knowledge and then B, you know, running the possibilities over and over again. So I believe we'll come up with targeted therapies that we would have never thought of before, would have taken hundreds of years to keep doing. If we do the scientific method, test it, fail, test it differently, you know, that kind of thing, and B, the speed at which we do it, I also believe it'll get healthcare to communities that otherwise would never get healthcare. Right now we go on Google and everyone puts their symptom ins. Take my word for it, they show up in the office and Google said guilty, guilty. I mean Google has ruined most doctors life and mine. But I think what we'll find is that today's search engines are blunt objects. And once we get through several iterations of AI, in addition to technologies and advancements in therapies, we're going to find that the AI will be a surgical tool in helping patients get diagnosis and treatment.
[00:31:44] Speaker B: Incredible. I love how you're ahead of the curve and envisioning AI, whether it be AI, machine learning. What will it take for you to dominate the market and be the lead?
[00:31:54] Speaker A: Sometimes being first to market isn't always the best, even though people think it's the best. But we've had several years now to understand the pitfalls, understand the costs associated. Initially Richard, I would say the Srin Hartzkin was a lost leader to bring people into the practice. To be quite honest with, it took us a while to figure out, but once we figured it out, it now gives us the ability to scale, which now gives us the ability to contract with vendors that we need for it to bring costs down or to get them to look at it differently. So I think at this point it's a financing issue. That's really all it is. It's a financing issue and a build out issue.
[00:32:34] Speaker C: What other applications of artificial intelligence have you seen in the medical field have you been exposed to?
[00:32:43] Speaker A: Oh, it's limitless. I think right now you see in gastroenterology, for instance, AI assessment of diagnoses, when you have an endoscopy, there's AI software that actually will evaluate those images. And for every biopsy that goes with an image, it's continued machine learning. You know, the biggest dermatology practice in the US now is basically a private equity roll up. And the way they scale that practice is by no longer going to the doctor, by AI software on your iPhone, and by Telemed Visual Telemed visits. So if you have a mole now, you take a picture, you upload it, and the AI makes the diagnosis.
[00:33:23] Speaker D: Wow. So that's a huge advancement.
[00:33:25] Speaker A: Yeah, it's limitless. We take a picture of your heart and without having to put a catheter in anymore. Remember, I'm a catheterizer by training, and I'm basically making myself obsolete because the AI software through that image can give us plaque, can give us blockage, can give us flow. You know, things that traditionally we had to do invasive procedures for. We have AI software now. I was at a dental conference in Knoxville and there's a surgeon that treats patients. He's down in Houston, but he do these reconstructions of their jaw where their jaw was kind of retrograde and causing obstruction to the airway, I'm saying, in very simplistic ways. And he'll laugh if he hears this. Okay. But it used to take him eight hours to do the surgery because of the complexity of the 3D assessment, you know, and his inability to do anything but very crude drawings of what he was going to do and I was going to get there. He now has an AI powered software that has taken an eight hour operation down to 45 minutes because of the way it reconstructs the anatomy for him. And so he could just get right into the OR now, and he knows exactly where to go and what to do. So the applications are limitless. It's particularly limitless on the diagnostic side. Richard, on CT scanning and mri, which is all software analysis. Right, right.
[00:34:51] Speaker B: I would say on the flip side, the issues with the ever growing AI in the medical industries and other industries, you know, specifically, I would say, is data privacy, security concerns. You have integration into clinical workflows and regulatory and ethical challenges.
[00:35:06] Speaker D: Right. The privacy thing, I think, is huge because everybody wants your data and you hope they just really honestly keep it anonymous and just stick it in a bucket with other data. So that's the hard part. Right.
[00:35:17] Speaker C: AI relies on a training set. It relies on a large amount of data to train itself to get the best results. So as far as privacy goes, we're giving up some privacy for better medical care.
[00:35:31] Speaker D: I had my 23andMe done, and Richard's like, I'm never going to have that done. I don't want to give them.
[00:35:35] Speaker C: I don't want anybody to have my DNA. I mean, I might want to commit a crime someday.
[00:35:41] Speaker D: But I do think you bring up a good point. How do you make a huge database without an invasion of privacy?
[00:35:47] Speaker A: Diane, that's actually a great point. I didn't want to bring it up before, but if you go back to the Wellcome Sanger Institute, one of the challenges they're having now is some of that genome or DNA that they have obtained, they obtained without consent.
[00:36:01] Speaker C: And that's most of AI now. I mean, at this point, most of the information.
[00:36:06] Speaker A: That's exactly right.
[00:36:07] Speaker C: Without consent.
[00:36:08] Speaker A: And in healthcare, consent is everything is paramount. Right. We have the HIPAA laws, which is all about privacy. So that would be a challenge. However, there's a real promise, and unlike the promise of worrying about the robots taking over the world, AI in healthcare gives us great promise to improve our time on Earth, making us feel better and live longer.
[00:36:31] Speaker D: Yeah. And my mother felt really, she swears it was from having the swine flu shot back in the 70s or whatever, but she felt sick her whole life. And so when she died, she donated her body to science. She's like, I hope they can finally figure out what the heck was wrong with me.
So she donated her body to science. Then we found out from one of the attorneys that used to work at Gearhart Law that there's like a repository for these cells and body parts in Europe that people go and get them from to do research on. So she gave her permission. Hopefully they could use it for something like this and figure out how to make us all healthier.
[00:37:09] Speaker C: Yeah. And that was our medical minute.
[00:37:11] Speaker D: That was quite a few minutes, but I thought that was a good discussion.
[00:37:14] Speaker C: Passage Prophet with Richard and Elizabeth Gerhardt.
[00:37:17] Speaker D: So now Diane Yu has Phoenix Global F E N I X Global. She's a venture capitalist and she's doing things a little differently. And we're going to let her tell her story. So welcome.
[00:37:30] Speaker B: Thank you. So Phoenix Global represents over 150 funds that are actually woman led. But we've scaled it out and it's for those that want to commit to diversity as well, including that we also work with a lot of family offices and investors and we really work with the community of investors driving demand for anything we see from early stage to late stage. Pre ipo, alternative investments, some commodities, and even trophy assets such as sports teams.
[00:37:56] Speaker D: Wow.
[00:37:57] Speaker B: I have been in venture capital actually since the typical route of MBA after graduate school. The fund itself, just on a side note, we have a $500 million fund that invests in Africa, actually technology and globally. We're working in partnership with a lot of the first ladies. Africa.
[00:38:13] Speaker D: So what do you look for in the companies you invest in in this.
[00:38:17] Speaker B: Specific investment thesis, we're looking for technology that would improve the local African countries. We work together also with the local governments and partner with local organizations. We also give back to HBCUs here in the US to provide a certification for venture capital. So we provide an opportunity for African students and executives to come and get an HBCU education and the US Fully paid for by us as well.
[00:38:43] Speaker C: Is there an extensive program associated with that? It's an academic program. What do people study to get.
[00:38:51] Speaker B: Unfortunately, they don't have to go through what I went through. I went through three of these programs.
[00:38:55] Speaker D: Oh my gosh.
[00:38:56] Speaker B: And to get in. So, for example, one of them has launched over 60% of all VCs in the world. Another one is partnered with Ivy League, like Stanford. So you get these, you know, great education, interaction with alumni and professors and really getting into this, whether it be a network or certification or business school, it's all about one thing. It's the network, and you're purchasing that. And so we want an opportunity on our social impact side of the fund to give back to African countries and executives that are primed to go a step further. So similar to many of the programs that I went through here to get your education and further certification and get that network so you can start with more investment.
[00:39:37] Speaker D: Network is so important. Yes.
[00:39:39] Speaker C: What kinds of companies are being created through your programs?
[00:39:44] Speaker B: We don't create companies. We can advise companies, definitely anything from startup to late stage. Advise on what are investors looking for, for example. And I would say, you know, there are a couple of things that I know that we're speaking to a lot of entrepreneurs today and your audience. And there are some biggest fails, I would say, on how to turn an investor away.
[00:40:05] Speaker D: We want to hear those.
[00:40:05] Speaker C: So we don't want to make any of those mistakes.
[00:40:09] Speaker B: I can, I can run down that as well. They're fun. I think they're fun for us because we see probably, let's say vcc, hundreds if not thousands of deals on a yearly basis. And how much of that really is garbage or prime to have investment? So number one is lack of clarity. We always hear for these trigger words. What is the problem? What is the solution? When you come right into that pitch and you see us, you have very few minutes, you know, to really pitch us the hook, the problem, and we're just looking for the right words. You could be the greatest salesman on earth and really fly through that pitch. But some people just don't understand. We need a lot of clarity. On what is the problem. A lot of people will talk about the issues in their industry as an expert, but we still don't understand the problem solution that they're solving. The second is weak leadership. We see that often where the CEO thinks he may be the answer to everything and doesn't hire out an incredible team or doesn't know the missing links to building out the right team. The other one is too much vision, too much fluff, but not enough execution. It's Almost like a 90, 10, 90% of the pitch is a big idea and 10% is ignoring what is a go to market strategy for this overkill on buzzwords. There's overconfidence but no execution. The next one is lack of a clear exit. So depending especially on the stage of the company, what is an exit? What is an ROI for these investors? And lastly, ignoring feedback or challenges that we gave you, dismissing feedback might make you look a bit arrogant and you may come back again. You know, one of the success stories we had is a woman came to pitch and she had everything planned out on her milestones page in the pitch deck and she really threw a low ball to the investor saying this is what I will perform in Q1 and Q2 and I'll be back in a year and give you that update. Well, she came back and she outperformed everything and all the investors doubled down.
[00:42:02] Speaker C: Dr. Puma, do you have a question or comment?
[00:42:05] Speaker A: I was listening intently. I wish I had my microphone on my recorder on when she just went through that. But.
[00:42:12] Speaker D: Well, this will be released as a podcast.
[00:42:15] Speaker A: Watching this on YouTube and taking that and sharing that with my partners, that is very sage advice. And like most advice, it's usually straightforward and simple in front of you, but we all miss it. That was amazing.
[00:42:28] Speaker C: Yeah. I think the problem solution piece is important because it's so easy for people who are so involved in their companies and their industry to not be able to communicate clearly what is the problem and what is it that they're trying to solve. And I think that's a great point. And you can't even run the business right until you have that clarity to begin with. Right. Because that's kind of what everything flows from, is understanding the problem and understanding the solution. So I think that's something you want to get down pretty early in the game if you can.
[00:43:04] Speaker B: I think the misconception is entrepreneurs, they're, you know, some of them are maybe a three time CEO, founder, great. Well, they can come in and they should be able to nail it. Then there are those that are maybe tech engineers or even doctors. They're extremely experienced in their expertise, but when they come in, it has to be boom. You know, there's clarity in the problem, there's clarity in the solution because they can get so in tune with the industry and all this vernacular that we really don't need.
[00:43:31] Speaker D: And that was one thing that we had heard, so we've been going around to these pitch competitions, all this stuff for years, was that yes, the investors are interested in your industry, but they're more interested in your team and how you can communicate to the investor. So they don't need for instance to know how to read a CT scan, but they do need to know what problem you're solving, which obvious was very obvious today. So if you were pitching to an investor, I mean that would be a no brainer, right? So what is the most important thing for you?
[00:44:00] Speaker B: You know, we used to say it comes down to one thing, the founder. It really does. There's a lot to it. There's a lot of soft skill, there's a lot of character, there's a lot of reading between the lines because at the end you invest thousands to millions of dollars and if they cannot be coachable, if they can't listen, you know, there's going to be a lot of litigation, for example, that could happen.
[00:44:18] Speaker C: That doesn't sound good. I've heard that said a lot of times, is that you want somebody who's open minded and willing to learn. And you do get a little nervous when somebody's in the room and they think they know everything because nobody knows everything. And you really have to have a good team and you have to take their input, take your shoes off, sit down, listen with empathy, find out what that's on their mind and soak it all in.
[00:44:45] Speaker B: I'll tell you one thing on the flip side as an entrepreneur, you know, one of the things that always gets me on my pet peeves is entrepreneurs come pitch to investors and they're not prepared. They haven't done the research on what is this VC known for, what are their exits, what's their secret sauce? Because when you're an entrepreneur, whether it be a ice cream truck or whatever it may be technology, you want to go to the best VC who has had an incredible track record, not 2x, maybe 100x150x as in it so many times you want them to invest in you because you'll be in good hands. They already have all the growth sales channels to, to help you out to a faster Exit.
[00:45:19] Speaker D: That is a really good point. And I've heard that before. And actually I know someone is looking for a job and they're oh, I put on all these resumes on indeed. Should I do a cover letter? I'm like, if you're going to do a cover letter, go research that company, research the CEO, research what they're for, research what they're doing right now. Know as much as you can if you're going to apply for a job there and then do your cover letter and send them. It's almost like applying for a job. I mean, you're asking somebody for their money to support you so you can do this work. Right. And people should know all about you as much as they can. And you make it easy. Right? Do you have office hours?
[00:45:50] Speaker B: Of course, office hours. But typically you don't always meet the gp, the general partner, meaning the maybe the top dog of the firm. You'll typically talk to the face of the company, which would be the analysts or the associates, because they get the first blush of the hundred deals that are coming in and go through that and then they'll pitch to their boss and it will go up the ladder. And we call it on Mondays. Don't call VCs on Mondays because they're typically having meetings. These presentations from associates to general partners on the here's my top three picks that's going to move forward.
[00:46:20] Speaker C: What do you say to somebody who has an idea and they want to do something with it and they're just starting from ground zero? What kind of question what that is like?
[00:46:30] Speaker B: Extremely ground zero all the way back, right?
[00:46:32] Speaker C: I want to do this product. So what do you tell them about how to get out there and do it?
[00:46:37] Speaker B: Well, there's many ways to answer that question. But truly, is there an opportunity in the market? You're looking at the competitor landscape. What is a market opportunity? How difficult are the hurdles? And then you have to integrate technology. I mean, There are some VCs, but we're not known to invest in non technology. We're known to invest in AI and technology. And once you get those buzzwords in, you really have to defend yourself. I have AI tech company. Great. But what is the best use of AI that you have? What are you using it for? Because once you use AI, sure you get access to a huge tunnel of funding versus not having AI. But going back, is there truly a market opportunity? Are you the leader? Are you the talent with the industry experience or do you have the team to come in and do that?
[00:47:21] Speaker D: So I started Doing the marketing at Gearhart Law because we weren't happy with the agencies and people that we'd hired because it's such a niche thing. Patents, trademarks, copyrights, people get them confused. But how much marketing do you want these people to have? Like, should they have done studies, should they have done focus groups? Should they be bringing that to you?
[00:47:38] Speaker B: Yes. I mean, I'm telling you, we lift up the hood and we'll ask 100 questions. Because again, we may be writing a check for X amount. We will go through every single. It's called a data room. So once we sign our access to the data room, we'll go in and that's where the entrepreneur uploads every single hundreds, if not thousands of files from every board meeting to your P and L, to everything. So that we can go through and catch those red flags. We will ask you, how many people did you interview to prove or what was your pilot? If you say 10, we may walk away. If you say couple hundred, then there may be some evidence.
[00:48:14] Speaker A: Dr. Puman, it's really incredible. The one thing I never really thought of is the milestones. And how do you get to market? Right? It's challenging on the medical side, we never think about going to the market. You know, who, who deals with private equity? We deal with patients. But how do you construct those concepts or explain those concepts a little further?
[00:48:33] Speaker B: Yeah, that's what excites me is it really comes down to a lot of finance and numbers. And when are you going to hit your break even? Let's say you're a startup company, as you had mentioned, you have to go do your research, your R and D have to prove it, and then you have to write your pitch deck and you have to write these milestones to pitch to the investor. And on that, it's, it's really driven by numbers. So within the first year, we look for when are you going to break even or when are you going to hit your first million? These are considered some milestones. And then you backtrack from there and you consider, what are the growth sales channels that I have to plug in? How am I going to scale? But then there's a lot of other financial questions that come with that.
[00:49:09] Speaker C: And it takes a lot of time to do that. By the way, if you're an entrepreneur and you're just throwing together a deck, but the deck represents all of your thinking about the business and why it's going to be successful and how you're going to get there. Right? So that deck is really your Blueprint for what's going to happen with your company. And then you have to convince your potential investors that this blueprint makes sense and has a good chance of success.
[00:49:38] Speaker B: Well, what's missing a lot from these pitch decks is the finance part of the deck, you know, the business revenue model. I'm always asking, where is your business? What is your business revenue model? You know, make it very succinct, but that all goes into this milestones as well.
[00:49:52] Speaker D: So do you feel like if somebody came to you with a DAC and their very first slide was I'm going to start with the return on the investment and work backwards from there. Would you like that approach?
[00:50:04] Speaker B: Yeah, it's not typical. I guess you could use it as a hook, right?
[00:50:09] Speaker D: Yeah. Because I know we've been to some of these and the people don't have a strong financial part. It's like they do, I don't know, half an hour and then two minutes is financials and they have, well, we think it's going to do this. And they have this exponential curve. Yeah.
[00:50:22] Speaker B: I mean other than dates, the investors writing, let's say $1 to a million dollars, they want to know, am I going to get a 5x in one year, two years?
[00:50:30] Speaker C: It requires making decisions and sometimes the people who are pitching the project don't really have the experience to make those decisions in the right way. Which is not to say they can't be successful or they can't learn, but they don't have enough experience with the product or the industry to be able to say, oh yeah, this is what the margin, I can sell this for this. Maybe it's a new product, who knows what they can sell it for? Right. You're kind of in a tough spot sometimes I think, but you have to do something and what you have to put up there has to be credible.
[00:51:00] Speaker B: I would say in the state of VC, kind of going further from the early stage to the late stage, the VC market has really gone under some difficult times post Covid as people or investors or family offices are looking to invest in less risk. What's really hot is secondary market. And secondary market meaning late stage pre ipo, faster liquidity. And a lot of these companies are billions of dollars in revenue and definitely in valuation. But their table stakes name, you know, they're anthropic. OpenAI, right. ChatGPT, SpaceX and a lot of these companies want access to that because probably, you know, like Canva in the next, by 2025 there will be an exit. And if you looked at them last quarterly earnings. It's, it's pretty incredible. So you want to get into these very limited access cap table.
[00:51:47] Speaker D: This has been really valuable. How do people find you?
[00:51:50] Speaker B: You can find us on my LinkedIn. That's fine. You can also check out our podcast which is separate from Phoenix Global. Would love to meet you as well as a as a guest on our show and identity Unveiled is a Network of over 1200 AAPI Asian American Pacific Islander sea level executive Diane U D.
[00:52:09] Speaker D: I A N E Space Y O O Phoenix Global F E N I X so thank you so much, Diane.
[00:52:16] Speaker C: Stay tuned. We'll be back with more Passage to Profit and Secrets of the Entrepreneur mind.
[00:52:22] Speaker I: I'm Jack, CEO and co
[email protected] when I left my job as a Wall street banker back in my 20s, I felt completely lost trying to navigate the process of hiring a financial advisor. I thought it should be easy to find the right financial advisor. So I created a place where young families could feel understood and their unique needs would be met with empathy and expertise. That's why I started usehabits.com where we help you find your financial advisor free of charge. Usehabits.com it's passage to Profit.
[00:52:54] Speaker D: Now it's time for Noah's retrospective. Noah Fleischman is our amazing producer here at Pat Message to Profit. And you know what? He just has a way of putting his best memories in perspective.
[00:53:05] Speaker J: Whether it's business or social, communication is key, especially the verbal kind. With all the texting and emailing going on nowadays, it's become a very elite quality. As a kid, my mother wouldn't let me out of the house if I didn't speak with absolute perfection. I had some great times around the house. But the point is, your spoken words are your lasting image. My parents were like E.F. hutton. When they spoke, people listened. People had to. When they spoke, you couldn't hear anything else. It was like that day in the convenience store. I'm 15 years old and I'm with my mother. And these two girls from my English class come walking in. My mother calls out from two rows away, you want me to ask them if they have a bathroom? Or can you wait till we get home? So distinctly spoken. No one missed a syllable. And she certainly put those two girls to shame. By the time she was done, they were so busy doubled over, laughing, they couldn't even get two words out of their mouths.
[00:53:56] Speaker E: Now more with Richard and Elizabeth, Passage to Profit.
[00:53:59] Speaker D: And our special guest today, Dr. Joseph Puma. And our other guest, Diane Yu it has been just a fabulous show, but now absolutely incredible. It is now time for Secrets of the Entrepreneurial Mind. This is where our guests give a secret that they've used to help make them successful or a secret about something that you should never do because we'll ruin what you're doing. So Dr. Joseph A. Puma of sorinmedicalny.com who is a doctor, a cardiologist, has his own practice. What would you tell listeners that's a good secret?
[00:54:35] Speaker A: I think the entrepreneurial mind analyzes what's happening and they typically do not follow the pack. Looking for unmet needs and coming up with novel and new ways to solve unmet needs. You'll be surprised how many there are.
[00:54:50] Speaker D: Yeah. Where everybody else sees, oh, this is nice. They're like, I can make that better.
[00:54:54] Speaker A: That's the key point. How do you make it better? But it's not just making a better mousetrap. You know, as Diane said earlier, if you're looking for venture money, don't say how you're going to make a better mousetrap with, you know, wooden nails. It's got to be technology driven. You got to identify what the need is and how you're going to solve that need. But I think it's the mind of an entrepreneur. They walk into every room, into every circumstance trying to answer that question. What could we do different? That's the secret.
[00:55:21] Speaker B: Diane, I've seen some really successful entrepreneurs and they're coming back and saying, look, in the next five years, I'm going to make $500 million. And they're very sure of it. And that's their one focus and they're going to exit. Well, how do they do all this? How do they even hit a billion dollars in the next decade or so? I think it really comes down to having seen so many cases is relationship. I mean, I can just whittle off. You got to work on this and this and this and all these hard skills. When really the success I've seen and the entrepreneurs that do make 500 million in five years is honing relationship. You already have the chops all aside. They come in and they're extremely experienced and have all the know how. But it's a relational aspect of meeting with investors, knowing the long term game.
[00:56:06] Speaker D: Relationships has come up a lot on this show as a very important factor that really smart people often overlook.
[00:56:15] Speaker A: Relationships are hard. They take time and they take effort.
[00:56:19] Speaker D: And we've had some shows like this one, I think, where people develop a synergy between themselves. The guests that we bring in. And there's just. Maybe it's that we're sharing the same air that, like, our molecules that are way out there intermingling or whatever. But there's a different energy when everybody's together in a room than when you're doing this remotely. And I prefer to do a lot of things in person, but I am kind of lazy sometimes, so I do like certain things, too.
[00:56:43] Speaker C: Well, my secret is actually inspired by our two guests. So part of it was a discussion that Dr. Puma and I were having about next steps at this phase of our career, and Diane talking about the next entrepreneur who had a $5 million goal. And so my thinking is always think big and always look for the next big step. Even if it doesn't quite work out, you'll be further along than where you started and you might exceed your goal. So I think keeping that in your head as you go through your business career is one of the healthiest things that you can do for yourself.
[00:57:26] Speaker D: Yeah. And I feel like entrepreneurs have to have a part of their brain that can look into the future. So kind of funny, when Richard and I started this six and a half years ago, this radio show, people thought we were crazy. In the entrepreneurial community in northern New Jersey, where we are, it has turned out to be a very beneficial thing for us. It's given us not just revenue for the law firm, but a lot of benefits in business, in personal life. And just to be able to maybe take out a telescope and see if you can see something further down the road, it's hard to do, but that's kind of what entrepreneurs do.
[00:57:58] Speaker A: They're always the people that have ideas that people are telling them not to do.
[00:58:03] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:58:03] Speaker A: The people telling them not to do it are the yes people.
[00:58:09] Speaker C: Yeah, that's great. Passage to Profit is a nationally syndicated radio show appearing in 38 markets across the United States. In addition, Passage to Profit has also been recently selected by Feedspot Podcasters Database as a top 10 entrepreneur interview podcast. Thank you to the P2P team, our producer, Noah Fleischman, and our program coordinator, Alicia Morrissey, and our studio assistant, Aristocrat Busari. Look for our podcast tomorrow anywhere you get your podcast. Our podcast is ranked in the top 3% globally. You can also find us on Facebook, Instagram X and on our YouTube channel. And remember, while the information on this program is believed to be correct, never take a legal step without check with your legal professional first. Gearhart Law is here for your patent, trademark, and copyright needs. You can find
[email protected] and contact us for a free consultation. Take care, everybody. Thanks for listening and we'll be back next week.
