[00:00:02] Speaker A: Ramping up your business. The time is near. You've given it hard. Now get it in gear. It's passage to profit with Richard and Elizabeth Gearhart.
[00:00:12] Speaker B: I'm Richard Gerhart, founder of Gearhart Law, a full service intellectual property law firm specializing in patents, trademarks, and copyrights.
[00:00:20] Speaker C: And I'm Elizabeth Gerhardt. Not an attorney, but I do marketing for Gearhart Law, and I have my own startups and podcasts.
[00:00:26] Speaker B: Are you one of the two in five Americans wanting to start your own business or already a business owner? Stay tuned. This show is about starting and growing your business. Welcome to passage to the road to entrepreneurship, where we learn why and how ordinary people, just like you, started and grew their businesses. And we also talk about the intellectual property that helps protect your innovations. It's time now for our distinguished guests, and we're really looking forward to this. Ernesto Killari and Barbara Wardell. You guys are like geofencing whizzes. So tell us a little bit.
[00:00:59] Speaker D: We dominate our industry.
[00:01:03] Speaker B: What is geofencing? Tell us what it is and how it can help us.
[00:01:06] Speaker E: First, thanks for having us. I'm Ernesto Collieri. I'm co founder, along with Barbara Wardell of Killeri and Wardell. And we specialize in geofencing, which is the use of GPS satellites to draw virtual fences around targets of interests. So when someone walks into a target of interest, we can capture their device. Could be a smart watch smartphone. We anonymize their device, and then we have the privilege and the legal right to follow them everywhere.
[00:01:35] Speaker D: Yes.
[00:01:36] Speaker E: And the good news is we can then send them ads to come to your store or to download your app. And when they do come to your location, your office, your podcast studio, the satellite will ping us, alerting us that a new visit has taken place. And in three countries, Canada or the Canada, as I like to call it today, the US and Australia, we send on a monthly average up to 5000 visits satellite, 5000 gps, satellite verified visits a month. So to make it more human, if you own a small restaurant, a coffee shop, or a music venue, and you want to look at your competition and say, hey, whoever goes there should also be coming to my business, you can then send them a customized message. It's just a higher form of targeted communications. You can send them a bespoke message, give them a call to action, whether it's come visit us or download our app. But the great news is you can measure in real time and in real ways, tangible ways, your return on investment.
[00:02:37] Speaker B: So you're sort of watching where people go and what stores they visit. And then are you combining that with other information about them, too, like data, like what kinds of things they like to buy and income and all of that stuff?
[00:02:50] Speaker E: Yeah. So on the one level, you have geofencing, which is basically gps based, and it's nothing more than drawing inferences based on where people have been. But then when you back up a little bit, you could do what's called geotargeting, which is where we can look at people based on their banking information, household income. You can look at recent purchases, credit card history, and again, all this is anonymized and then categorized based on zip code. When you do it that way, then you can start looking at Personas, a buying Persona. So if we're looking at speaking to other musicians or say you're a comedian, and Joe Rogan just built his new comedy center in Austin and he wants to communicate to other comedians. He could do that. He could target them by demographic and then location.
[00:03:34] Speaker C: So I'm kind of assuming here that we're all kind of being stocked by software. I mean, we already knew we were with Google and Amazon and everything. So here's another one to add to the list. But it is amazing how this works. So how do your clients typically use it? Do they find people maybe that are shopping at Nordstrom and then they want to send an ad for a jewelry store or something to them in the same mall or something? Like, how does that work?
[00:03:59] Speaker E: Barbara and I tried to do this in combination. We start everyone off with just hardcore. Where are they located?
[00:04:06] Speaker D: To a radius.
[00:04:07] Speaker E: Yeah. And, you know, location, we say all the time is indicative of what you can really do in the real world.
[00:04:12] Speaker D: Because if you're looking on your phone, that doesn't mean that you're going to buy that. Whatever you're looking, looking at, you could look at Mercedes all day long. That doesn't mean you're actually going to buy it. But if you walked into a Mercedes lot, that's different.
[00:04:23] Speaker E: So we use that firsthand, first party data in real time, we're collecting devices, but then we mix it with what we were just talking about, which is a buyer Persona. Are we targeting musicians? Are we targeting listeners? Are we targeting people who are getting divorced? Are we targeting people that are in the market to refinance their home based on location?
[00:04:42] Speaker B: How do you know whether somebody's getting divorced, they're going to see a divorce attorney or how do you track that?
[00:04:48] Speaker E: We would if we're working with a divorce attorney, sadly, liquor stores, strip cars.
[00:04:54] Speaker D: There'S a behavior to that surprise.
[00:05:00] Speaker C: So do you draw data from other sources? Because the weirdest thing happened to me. I have a granddaughter, and I just got a magazine for women's clothing, and on the back page was a little section with baby clothes. Did they change their back cover just for me because they knew I'm buying baby clothes now? Like. Cause I've never seen that on any of these catalogs before.
[00:05:19] Speaker E: That is the first time I've heard that question. But I have to tell you that if that advertiser is using a form in a particular platform, I'm not gonna say what platform, but if they're using a particular platform, they can send you in a magazine, an ad that is bespoke to you based on the parameters that that brand is using to target someone. So part of it, I would say, that is geo targeting. So, for example, if everyone here wanted to advertise in Sports Illustrated, you can. And you could do it by page, and you could do it by zip code, and you can send a targeted real world ad in a real magazine to someone like they did to you. So someone geo targeted you is what I would suspect.
[00:05:58] Speaker C: Wow.
[00:05:58] Speaker E: Based on your past purchase history and.
[00:06:01] Speaker D: Your location, and that's what Facebook and Google does. So, remember, if you buy something from, say, a Facebook ad or Instagram, you will actually get more of that. So if you bought a blouse, all of a sudden, you're getting more. You looked at a t shirt, you're getting more of those constantly now. Like, my instagram is so filled with it now, it's crazy where it wasn't. Now it is.
[00:06:24] Speaker B: Marketing is always such a huge challenge. You know, getting your message to the right people is really important. Getting those people to come to you and pay you is what allows you to pay your bills. Right, and employ people. So I'm all for this, but there's another part of me that is a little uncomfortable thinking that I'm being tracked wherever I go. And it feels a little creepy, to be honest.
[00:06:51] Speaker D: I totally understand, because when I first looked at this business, I saw all the data that they have, and I thought they had a lot of data. They have way more data than you ever could imagine on you. And I actually put it down and said, I don't know about this business. But then I thought about it is they're never giving us that privacy back, just like everything else, so use it for good. And during COVID everything happened with some of our favorite businesses shutting down. So that's why we decided to take this on, to build the small and mid sized businesses with Facebook, they know your name, so they can't have all the other information that we have because we don't know your name. We give it your phone identifier, and that's how we follow you.
[00:07:32] Speaker B: I think that's good, but I do get concerned that down the road, this could be abused by people.
[00:07:38] Speaker E: There's one legal situation now in Texas. Law enforcement is using off the shelf technology to track people. And because there's really no legislation surrounding it, the government is able to do that. On the other hand, you know, our company really took off during COVID We're the only ones in Australia, for example, doing geofencing, except for or the australian government. They were using it to make sure you weren't on the beach.
[00:08:02] Speaker B: Oh, during COVID yes.
[00:08:04] Speaker E: So the only bad actors thus far have been the government. We're advertisers. We're an agency. What we want to do is make people small, middle class businesses. We want to help them grow. We're invested in protecting people's privacy, whereas the government is always, no matter what side of the aisle you're on, it doesn't matter. They are taking your privacy no matter what. So we're empowering people to put their information to good use.
[00:08:30] Speaker C: It is important because people are hit with so many ads and so much information from every different direction. I think the more personalized stuff does kind of help because it is maybe something you actually do want to see, and it helps you filter out through all the other junk that's out there. So I see a place for it.
[00:08:49] Speaker E: It's even the premise of this podcast and this radio show. It's geared towards people who are interested in helping themself grow their business through better marketing, intellectual property, and things like that. Well, imagine, no matter what, your interests, are only receiving things that you're interested in. So therefore, then advertising becomes advertisement. Like, what this very program is, is edutainment. Advertisement is really giving people something that helps them, that they're interested in, that benefits them and brings more joy to their life.
[00:09:22] Speaker C: That's the thing. Small businesses waste a lot of money if they can't target the right audience.
[00:09:26] Speaker D: And that's why we're so precise in our targeting.
[00:09:29] Speaker B: So what makes your company able to work with small, midsize businesses? Is it your pricing model? If we were to come to you and ask for some geo targeting help, give us some idea of how you would work with us.
[00:09:42] Speaker D: The first thing that we would do is we'd have a free consultation with you and find out what your wants and needs and actually who is your customer. And then from there, we would do a foot traffic study of your business for a year to see where your customers go an hour before, an hour after, to see kind of what your foot traffic is, and to kind of get that whole, where do they go? Are they in the working area? Is that where they're coming from? Do they live in the area? It depends on what kind of business, whether you're a laundromat, whether you're a boutique. But we look at the business like that at first to see the broader picture, and then we work to figure out, okay, now what are we going to do here?
[00:10:26] Speaker B: Is the business model really only help businesses that are brick and mortar? What if you have a virtual business? Is there a way to incorporate geotargeting in that circumstance?
[00:10:36] Speaker E: Geofencing and geotargeting can be used to drive online traffic, specifically for app downloads and things like that. But what location allows us to do is identify people who are already spending money in a certain demographic. So even though we're trying to drive an online conversion or online behavior, whether it's to watch a tv show or whether it's to come to, even if it's like psychological counseling or anything like that, or coaching, business coaching location is truly indicative of what you can do in the real world. So we can draw certain inferences. So if you're in downtown Austin, you're most likely to buy country music online, you're more likely to listen to Nashville artists, you're more likely to listen to comedians. You're also more likely to be a fitness minded person. So location truly is beneficial. Getting some intelligence on our clients, and that's what we do. Foot traffic studies is one of them. Census data is another. We also do listening campaigns to try and identify the amount of available devices to capture and speak to. But getting some intelligence on a client is one of the first things we would do in a consultation. And then I think what segue to what I think your question is, is like, how affordable is this? Nearly any business should be able to afford $1,000 ad spend a month. If you can afford $1,000 ad spend a month, then we can drastically change the trajectory of your business.
[00:11:59] Speaker D: And we worked hard to get to that number because a lot of the corporations that use this technology, they have 30,000, 40,000 a month for their ad spend. Small businesses couldn't afford that. So we had to work really hard to figure out how we could bring a smaller budget to a vast amount.
[00:12:18] Speaker B: So let me ask you this. So what if I am a brick and mortar sportswear retailer? So could I hire your company to identify all the people who are going to, like, say, a New York giants football game and they're going to the stadium? And I know that those people are football fans of, and I can serve them with ads to come to my store. Would that make sense? Is that a sensible application?
[00:12:44] Speaker D: We can do events, yes.
[00:12:45] Speaker E: If you had multiple locations in the tri state area, for example, because we're in the tri state area, then it would make sense to target giant stadium. What would be more beneficial is if you had apparel or just a sporting goods store and you targeted everyone within a few zip codes that, say, goes to a baseball park or a high school game. So we try to go down the funnel, that sales funnel, and pick what is the closest thing to conversion? Where can they be found in a physical location? So whether it's a digital conversion you're looking for, the more you know about your audience, the more you know about your customer, and the closer you can make them an offer towards the bottom of the funnel, the better off and the more money you're going to save them. The top of the funnel is the furthest from a sale. The bottom of the funnel is the closest to consummation or to conversion. The closer we can get towards the bottom of that funnel, the more value.
[00:13:42] Speaker B: So if somebody's trying to decide between geotargeting or geofencing and, say, more well known types of advertising, where does geofencing sort of fit into that overall advertising strategy?
[00:13:58] Speaker D: We think you should do everything with a modest budget, but geofencing is because it's satellite verified. You know how much you spent on that ad, and you know where they saw that ad and when they came in.
[00:14:10] Speaker C: With digital marketing, getting attribution is one of the toughest things. I've been trying that for years, and I've asked experts on this show, okay, how do I know where my clients came from? If they just say, Internet, how can I narrow it down? They're like, oh, well, you know, send out an email, and if your leads go up, then, you know it was that email. I'm like, yeah, I know that. But, like, attribution, that's huge. If you can do absolute attribution, that is a big perk.
[00:14:35] Speaker E: We're gonna brag a little bit. $5.75 is our national average. To bring a visit through someone's door.
[00:14:41] Speaker B: That's. That's great. That's amazing.
[00:14:44] Speaker E: That's like giving. That's like, it is pretty insane.
[00:14:46] Speaker D: And our best client does just over $2.11.
[00:14:49] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:14:50] Speaker E: Wow.
[00:14:51] Speaker C: And do they buy something when they're there?
[00:14:53] Speaker E: It's a laundry. So we send them about 500 to 1000 new clients a month.
[00:14:57] Speaker B: That's a lot of dirty laundry.
[00:14:58] Speaker E: It is.
[00:15:00] Speaker B: We have to take a break now. So you're listening to passage to profit with Richard and Elizabeth Gerhart. We'll be back right after this. And stay tuned for secrets of the entrepreneurial mind, coming up soon.
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[00:17:15] Speaker C: Special guests, Ernesto Glory and Barbara Wardell. We are talking about a very unique and very effective marketing tool for brick and mortar businesses, geofencing and how it fits into your marketing plan. And you are saying it should be the one thing a small business with a physical location does.
[00:17:34] Speaker E: If you want people to show up and or download an app, geofencing is the best way to get a great return on investment. I did start off as a commercial songwriter and still was not able to tie things together. How do you tie an artist, their content and an audience together? It wasn't until we discovered geofencing were we able to pull building something. Because as Barbara always says, you can build something, but they will not always come. Geofencing allowed us to build something for each of our clients. They were the builders, right? But we were the ones that tie it together. We're the ones that take your audience and matches it to your product.
[00:18:12] Speaker B: So what if you're a service based business and you're interested in geofencing, as opposed to a brick and mortar kind of business? How would you go about implementing a geofencing targeting program for somebody in that line of work?
[00:18:26] Speaker E: If you could build a Persona, then you can find your client. If you could put together a Persona for who your client is, then you can serve them an ad within a given geography and you can measure a conversion online. Or if you're a clinician or a professional and you want them to set up an appointment for a consultation, you could do that online as well. So you can look at it from a demographic, personality, buying Persona perspective and restrict it to geography. You pick out four zip codes, five zip codes, and you can communicate to them specifically.
[00:19:00] Speaker C: And I think the Persona is one of the fundamentals of marketing. Right? We have client Personas for gear law. We also get, believe it or not, walk ins. People that see the sign and come in and want to spend lots of money on patents and trademark.
[00:19:13] Speaker B: You never know. I drive by your office all the time. And I've had this idea for years.
[00:19:18] Speaker E: I think that's awesome.
[00:19:19] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:19:20] Speaker E: And it just shows you what a great country we live in, where the average person actually probably does have a brilliant business idea.
[00:19:25] Speaker C: They do.
[00:19:26] Speaker B: Just about everybody does, right? Two in five.
[00:19:29] Speaker D: And I think it's a need now for everyone to see that they really wanna build their own brand, their own business, be separate and not in the corporate world anymore. I think it's a big thing.
[00:19:40] Speaker B: I think. So I left the corporate world. I love the fact that I am able to run Gerhardt law the way I want to. It's sort of my canvas. I get to paint on that and that's where my creativity goes. People express themselves through their work. You don't always get that opportunity when you work for a big company.
[00:20:00] Speaker D: Both Ernesto and I were in the medical industry before we got into everything.
[00:20:05] Speaker E: That was my day job.
[00:20:06] Speaker D: I did specialty medicines, and it was hard because you wanted to point the doctors in the right direction, and they couldn't do those things for those patients. Now we don't have those anymore, and we can help as many small businesses as we want.
[00:20:21] Speaker B: There you go.
[00:20:22] Speaker C: That's good.
[00:20:22] Speaker B: That sounds good. Where can people find you guys if they want to get some geo targeting in their life?
[00:20:29] Speaker D: You can locate us at www. Dot collariculae m e dash dash.com.
[00:20:37] Speaker B: And if I just hold up a sign to the sky, it says, I want geo targeting.
[00:20:41] Speaker E: You guys will find me.
You know what? Just turn your phone on. Don't worry.
[00:20:44] Speaker B: We'll find passage. To profit is a nationally syndicated radio show appearing in 31 markets across the United States. Thank you to the P two P team, our producer, Noah Fleischman, and our program coordinator, Alicia Morrissey and Rishikat Busari. Look for our podcast tomorrow, anywhere you get your podcast. Our podcast is ranked in the top 3% globally. You can also find us on Facebook, Instagram, x, and on our YouTube channel. And remember, while the information on this program is believed to be correct, never take a legal step without checking with your legal professional first. Gerhart Law is here for your patent, trademark, and copyright needs. You can find
[email protected] and contact us for a free consultation. Take care, everybody. Thanks for listening, and we'll be back next week.
