[00:00:00] Speaker A: See where you might be able to build something that's a little different than the market leaders.
[00:00:05] Speaker B: I didn't have to change my cash flow. I didn't have to work harder.
[00:00:08] Speaker C: There are no answers inside of your office.
[00:00:11] Speaker D: I'm Richard Gerhart.
[00:00:12] Speaker E: And I'm Elizabeth Gerhart. You've just heard some snippets from our show. Do you want to know more about starting your business? Stay tuned.
[00:00:20] Speaker A: Ramping up your business.
[00:00:22] Speaker D: The time is near.
[00:00:23] Speaker B: You've given it heart, now get it in gear. It's passage to profit with Richard and Elizabeth Gearharthe.
[00:00:31] Speaker D: I'm Richard Gerhart, founder of Gearhart Law, a full service intellectual property law firm specializing in patents, trademarks, and copyrights.
[00:00:38] Speaker E: And I'm Elizabeth Gerhart. Not an attorney, but I do marketing for Gearhart law, and I have my own startups and podcasts.
[00:00:45] Speaker D: Are you one of the two in five Americans wanting to start your own business or already a business owner? Stay tuned. This show is about starting and growing your business. Welcome to passage to the road to entrepreneurship, where we learn why and how ordinary people, just like you, started and grew their businesses. And we also talk about. About the intellectual property that helps protect your innovations. And with us today is Joe Lopez from Angkora Advisory, a global firm specializing in internationalization.
[00:01:13] Speaker E: And then we have Arnold Tsu with G reminders. Oh, my gosh. If you've ever used calendly, this is like if calendly had 50,000 kids. It's amazing all the stuff you can do with this app. It's really great. And then we have Brett Kessler with the money multiplier. Let's keep this multiplication theme going.
[00:01:32] Speaker D: I'm definitely down for multiplying money.
[00:01:34] Speaker E: Yeah, I'm definitely down for. Yeah.
[00:01:37] Speaker D: Well, are you one of the two in five Americans wanting to start your own business? Lots of times, new business owners ask other experienced business owners, what challenges have you seen in your journey? So I'd like to ask our guests, what unforeseen challenges have you seen when you were starting and growing your businesses?
[00:01:55] Speaker B: Let's start with Brett challenges. You know, there's a lot of noise out there that comes along, and people are telling you, like, different things. So you really need to keep an open mind about what people are telling you. I mean, I'm always a big believer that God gave me two ears and one mouth, so I should be listening twice as much as I talk. I'm still working on that.
[00:02:16] Speaker D: Joe, when you think about that, what was a particular, unforeseen event that happened in your career that threw you off?
[00:02:25] Speaker A: I was in the middle of a very large startup transaction between a established company and their factory in China, and I thought, oh, gosh, what a great thing for me. I'll be in the middle and I'll hold the money in the middle between the transaction and make my little cut on the side. Well, gosh, not only did I go from being the collector, but now I'm the payee. So I was getting pressure on both sides of the fence, and this would go with any startup as far as suppliers and incoming payments. So all of a sudden, I learned really quickly that you can grow a business fast with revenue. But, my gosh, payables and your margins are important, too.
[00:03:02] Speaker D: Arnold, what's the unforeseen situation that you had in your entrepreneurial journey?
[00:03:07] Speaker C: Everything.
I'll echo what some of the guests have to say, but, I mean, no plan goes according to the plan, right? And I think as an entrepreneur, you constantly are sort of pivoting and you're making, hopefully quick decisions with half data, but hopefully those decisions tend to be reversible.
[00:03:25] Speaker D: Joe, you're nodding your head there. Do you have something to add to that?
[00:03:28] Speaker A: I do. It made me think of a couple of things. One is, when you're starting a business, there's a couple pieces of advice that I've gotten over the years. One is that you can create a product and try and sell that into a market.
[00:03:41] Speaker D: Right.
[00:03:41] Speaker A: And create a market, or look at the market itself and see what it needs and then create a product for that. I've always found it's much better to find the fit in the market or your product, and that way there's already a built in customer base for you to sell to.
[00:03:59] Speaker D: That kind of makes sense. Brett, what do you think?
[00:04:01] Speaker B: Yeah. So, even though a lot of us are in sales. Right. The thing is, is I don't like to consider myself a person that sells or a salesman. I like to consider myself as I am finding a solution to somebody else's problem. And a lot of times they may not even know that they have a problem or need that solution yet, but we're bringing it just to light to we're saying, hey, here's the problem, and we have the solution that can solve this for you.
[00:04:28] Speaker D: That's great.
[00:04:29] Speaker E: So, Elizabeth, I think my big mistake has been thinking that other people will think like I think, and I started this video directory for business coaches thinking, oh, being on video, everybody's on Zoom. It's no big deal. Everybody's comfortable on video and they'll all do these little 32nd commercials for themselves. And I could put together this great website and even people that teach people how to be on video and teach people about business don't want to do videos of themselves. So I kind of, I misjudged that part of the market. I did a focus group on people that would watch the videos. They were like, yeah, that'd be pretty cool to see a video of somebody before I call them up. But getting people to do the videos, I misjudged that.
[00:05:08] Speaker D: That was unforeseen. But I still think it was a good idea and I do think it's time will come. Your answers were all amazing. I learned a lot. So thank you for sharing. And now it's time to go to our featured guest, Joe Lopez from Angkor Advisory. He's a global business strategist and he's a startup growth and exit expert. You're talking to us from just outside Zurich, Switzerland. Tell us what you've been up to and what you've got going on for the future.
[00:05:34] Speaker A: Thanks so much. Yeah, I just had a successful exit from a startup I created off of a napkin four years ago. It was a dream that I had and an idea. Four years later I exited the business and sold my shares just a month ago, almost to the day. So Im out here in Switzerland having meetings as Im getting ready to form a new advisory group thats going to specialize in helping brands from the EU scale and come into the US and sell their products in the US because a lot of these companies over in Europe dont know how to do that. So thats what Im going to be working on and Im very excited about it.
[00:06:13] Speaker D: Thats great. So what made you decide to get back on the horse so quickly? I would think after an exit you'd like to take six months or a year off and just regenerate.
[00:06:23] Speaker A: Gosh, me too. I don't know. I don't have an answer for that question other than if I just stop, I don't know that I'll be able to start again.
[00:06:31] Speaker E: I think I have the answer to that question, Joan.
[00:06:34] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:06:35] Speaker E: I think you're like, Richard, we'll never retire because our brains won't stop working and we could try to not do anything and we always end up doing something. You're probably just one of those kind of people that just can't sit around and watch reruns of Gilligan's island or something.
[00:06:50] Speaker A: Hey, that's a great show.
[00:06:53] Speaker D: But what she says is right. I mean, it's like you spend 40 years, 50 years turning yourself into a machine of sorts, you know, getting up, doing it every day. And after a while your neural pathways are just conditioned to keep going. Right. I sometimes find it hard to stop, even though I'm supposed to.
[00:07:10] Speaker E: I want to talk a little bit about getting a company ready for an exit because when I was doing the video directory, I tried to start it from day one to be positioned to sell because I knew I didn't want to keep it. And so what can people do with their companies if they're starting a company now? Because we're hoping that some of our listeners are thinking about it. What would you do from day one to set it up so you could eventually have a great exit?
[00:07:35] Speaker A: There's a few things. The first thing is to actually position your company and look at the market that you're in. So take a look at whatever market is that you want to go to, whatever industry that is what trade it is, and see where you might be able to build something that's a little different than the market leaders that you could see in the future might be able to attach to their business or round out something. Let's give an example. Say there's a company in the industry that you want to move into that's selling into consumer products, selling into a big chain retailers, right? And they're really good at that. Are they going to want to buy somebody who's also selling into big chain retailers? Or would they want maybe somebody who's selling to mom and pop stores or a specialist that online? And if you can see that from the beginning and you're successful, chances are those competitors are going to see that as well. And that's the number one reason for acquisition is that they try to round it out the business.
[00:08:36] Speaker D: How do you know when it's time.
[00:08:37] Speaker A: To exit a well thats a personal question for most founders and it can relate to ive seen it all across the board because prior to doing what Im doing now, I was a venture capitalist in Silicon Valley, which means that I was working with a bank that helped fund startups. So I worked with founders that had great ideas and dreams and helped make them come to reality. So looking at the broad macro view of that, what is it that drives these dreams and these people and what do they want at the end? And thats answer is very different. Its an individual. But I would say that for the majority of people, it's when they feel like they've reached a point where their skill set can no longer really contribute to the business, and they need to bring in other people who can help. Either fund it or maybe they're really good with talking, but they need people to help running the numbers more, and they help bring in others to operate the business at a different speed and scale. Those are usually the times where I see businesses wanting a founder to exit. But then there's guys like, let's look at Elon Musk. He drew it all in a napkin, right? And he's still there. And now he's running some of the largest companies on earth. But that's an exception and not the rule. Most of the time, it's an internal thing, and you get an idea, okay, it's time for me to go. Of course, that's not even looking at what your business has done, but just when it's your time and you want to exit.
[00:09:55] Speaker D: So you think it's really driven more by founders, and would you say it's frustration and not being able to bring it to grow? Or how does this kind of manifest itself?
[00:10:05] Speaker A: First and foremost, as we all know, most ideas and dreams dont get off the Runway. The difference between your great idea and someone elses is its very important for you to take it out of your drawer and then go execute it. The execution of a new business is the piece that matters, not just the concept of it. Once thats moving and the revenues youve built sales, you built customers, all of a sudden, you have a company, right? Which is so exciting. When does that satisfy you? How large do you want to get? What is your vision for it? Do you feel like, oh, my goodness, this is, I'm getting over my skis here. I need a partner. Again, all individual factors that you feel as you're going as a leader of your dream, but at the end of the day, it is your dream. So a lot of people will die in that sword and say, this is what I'm going to do. There's an old analogy of Cortez who landed in the new world and he burned his ships to show the crew there's no going back. And I love founders that have that mentality.
[00:11:05] Speaker D: That's great. Well, so that's kind of interesting because you're talking about it in terms of founders. What about if it's a larger company with maybe a larger management team or a board of directors? Did they just come in and say, the wind is blowing in the right direction, it's time to sell?
[00:11:23] Speaker A: It does depend on the size of the business and then the structure of the business. If you have a board like you're referring to, or that's what your dream is, to have a group of individuals that have invested in the business, then all of that's got to line up. If you are the main majority owner of your company, then at the end of the day, it's up to you, meaning you own 51% of all of your shares. But if someone else does and they own over 50%, then they absolutely can make the decision of what's going to happen to the business and when. So ultimately, and you can learn a lot about this by watching. Listening to shows like this and watching Shark Tank, about the kinds of ways in which founders will dilute their own ownership stake to take in equity or take in even partners. And at the end of the day, those folks will have a big say in it if they own more of the business than you do.
[00:12:13] Speaker E: I think that that is really a double edged sword, what you're talking about right there, because you have to have money to grow. Some people can bootstrap, but if you really want to grow, I think you need some sort of funding. But then if you give away too much of your company, then it can have the repercussions. You just said you lose control. At least some control, right?
[00:12:32] Speaker A: Yeah. For example, I did not have full control over the business that I sold. I brought in. Uh, there was a group that was in this involved with me. So to Richard's point, it was a little dance, making sure that everybody was moving to the right cadence so that their goals were the same as mine. I ultimately, it worked out, but it's not. And I'm probably making this a little bit more complicated than maybe it should be. At the end of the day, if the business is running well and there's a motivation to exit, a few things will happen. The business will try hard to grow sales, decrease expenses to show more profit, which are the two ways in business that you can increase profit only by increasing your sales or decreasing your expenses and position the company for sale so that it looks competitive to someone that's out there that may want to be a motivated buyer.
[00:13:21] Speaker E: And you talk about the motivated buyer. It's kind of funny, because we have friends, and they owned a business for a long time and had really built it up. They had bought it from somebody, and they just sold it. And our friend is sticking around as a consultant for a couple of years, right? But he's got a lot more freedom, and he's telling me, she's like, wow, I can't believe what this guy is doing with the business now.
[00:13:42] Speaker A: Great.
[00:13:42] Speaker E: I had another question for you. When would you do an IPO initial public offering instead of selling? Like when would you go public with your business?
[00:13:50] Speaker A: Yeah, thats a more complicated question because then youre really involving a lot more people and opening up your company to be individual investors.
[00:13:57] Speaker B: Right.
[00:13:58] Speaker A: And thats when my old mentor said as soon as you start looking at putting your company public versus private is when he hands you a tombstone with your companys name on it and the date that it went public, you said good job, enjoy, because you're dead now.
So that's really a whole different deal. When you are looking at taking a company public, you're really looking at scaling is what that's about. You want that business to be bigger, a huge national brand, perhaps. You know, you want to position in a way where you can go out and just raise a lot more capital. And then the flip side of that, of course, you've got a lot more people reading your financials, guiding where things will go. So it's kind of the beginning of the end of the control that you have with the business. So to your point, there's never really a right time. What we see in today's society is a lot more technology driven. The technology companies will rush to get an ipo to kind of, people will want to get in early and participate in that, and they're able to move that pretty quick. But I'm a big fan of private companies and keeping things private and controlled as much as you can.
[00:15:06] Speaker E: I'm excited about what Joe's doing with bringing european companies over here. So what's kind of the secret for that, or how do they make that decision?
[00:15:14] Speaker A: So I'm working with a french company and an english company as well, getting into the us market. It's actually quite scary for them if they've not done that before. So the idea there is they've hit some kind of a saturation point, maybe in their market, maybe a competitor has started to move into new markets and that's going to drive them. ElizAbETh so there's a number of factors. It's always about the revenue and what could happen. For example, Europeans look at, typically speaking, they look at the american market as a huge opportunity because of the scale that we can do here in the United States with our open footprint of 50 states versus all the individual countries in Europe. So it can be a little scary for them. They're not sure how to do it, who the right partners are, and they're also terrified of things like Amazon because it's a much less of a force of nature over here than it is at home.
[00:16:05] Speaker D: Very interesting. So we have to take a commercial break. We're here with Joe Lopez, global business expert from Angkor Advisory. Back with more passage to profit, right after this.
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[00:18:14] Speaker B: 40. Now back to passage to profit once.
[00:18:18] Speaker E: Again, Richard and Elizabeth Gearhart and our special guest, Joe Lopez, international business expert. And we just started digging into what he's doing bringing european countries to the US. And when people bring something in from overseas, do they do it state by state or are there some federal laws they can bring it in under? Like how does that work?
[00:18:36] Speaker A: The way that I advise clients to do that is, first of all, its a big country. Yes, theres 50 states. However, when you really boil it down and you look at the population and the consumption in the US, theres really only a few states you need to worry about launching in. And then from there, for example, the population in New York, Florida, Texas, California, and then from there you can branch out into the other regions and markets.
[00:19:02] Speaker E: It always comes down to those four states. Those are always in the top four or five states. So if you're coming from Europe, maybe New York makes the most sense in Florida because they're shorter distance.
[00:19:13] Speaker A: So if you just focus in on particularly one market or two in the beginning and shore yourself up, then from there you can build it out. And the same thing goes with Europe. There's really only a few countries that control most of the demand here and most of the population and the money. So that's where you'd want to focus.
[00:19:31] Speaker D: Typically when people are thinking about filing patents outside the United States, in Europe, it's really always the four major France, Great Britain, Germany, Italy. Sometimes you'll add Spain in there too. But even super big companies will typically focus on just those four or five major countries because that's where all the action is. Right? And if somebody tries to do something goofy, doing infringement or something in a different country, it's usually not a lot of sales or they can find a way to go after them in one of the major countries. The same principle sort of applies here in the US. You go for the markets that are.
[00:20:12] Speaker A: The most active, something that my father always taught me that's very important and applies to this lesson in business of focusing in on different countries or segments or maybe even cities that you want to start your business in is to just not try to boil the ocean in a startup, start with boiling a cup of water, focus on that, get good on that, and then from there grow out.
[00:20:33] Speaker D: Well, that's amazing advice, Joe. Joe Lopez, global business strategist and startup growth and exit expert. Where can people find out more about you and what you're doing and perhaps how you can help them?
[00:20:46] Speaker A: LinkedIn.com Jlopez I I all right.
[00:20:50] Speaker D: Joe Lopez from Ankara Advisory, a global firm specializing in internationalization, at www.ankoraadvisory.com. passage to profit with Richard and Elizabeth Gerhart. Time now for IP in the news.
[00:21:08] Speaker E: Zillow gone wild. It's like a Facebook page and then it's also set on HGTV now, but they're taking pictures of high end homes and getting the best ones together and putting them on this Facebook page saying, look at the best of Zillow. Whatever. We can't find any association with Zillow. However, they are not asking people if they can use their photographs. And somebody finally decided that was enough.
[00:21:30] Speaker D: Let me see if I've got this right. So Zillow has these high end homes. And of course, if you've ever been to Zillow, you see it's got all the pictures of all the houses, not.
[00:21:41] Speaker E: Just high end, on Zillow. Zillow's everything, right?
[00:21:43] Speaker D: But Zillow gone wild, they took the best pictures from the best homes and put that on a separate website.
[00:21:50] Speaker E: I don't think it's a website. Even I found it on Facebook.
[00:21:53] Speaker D: Okay, so it's a Facebook page and it's called Zillow gone.
[00:21:56] Speaker A: What?
[00:21:56] Speaker E: Zillow gone wild. And they're not the only ones that are stealing pictures from people. But a real estate photographer discovered her photos on zillow gone wild, and she was like, wait, you can't use those without giving me something for them.
[00:22:08] Speaker D: So this is tricky. Suppose if you're a real estate agent and you hire somebody to take photos of your client's house, and then you post them on your website, and then it ultimately gets posted on Zillow. Those would typically be considered property of the real estate agent if they paid for him and if they had a contract. But in this case, the photos were then taken from the real estate agent or from Zillow and put on this website. And now the photographers are getting upset about that. And so the question is, does the photographer, are they entitled to any money for this? I'd like to ask our guests what they think about this.
[00:22:46] Speaker B: Brent, you know, you would think it would be their property, their intellectual property, and they would not be able to just post that or use those pictures. So I don't know if there's some kind of copyright.
[00:23:00] Speaker D: It's kind of a confusing situation because really, who has the rights? Arnold, what do you think about it?
[00:23:05] Speaker C: I think it's somewhat of a gray area, but in my opinion, you can use something, but at least have a mechanism to be able to take that down. Right? So DCMA take down notices, things like that. They can send a notice, please take that down. And they should respect that, Joe.
[00:23:20] Speaker A: We should absolutely have a process in place. But, boy, whenever I hear Zillow, I get, still get stuck on the fact that I can go look up all my friends houses and see how much they were worth.
[00:23:28] Speaker E: Speaking of intellectual property, I do have to credit the person who wrote this article. It was from artnet.com by Brian Boucher thank you, Brian.
[00:23:36] Speaker D: We appreciate that. And if you want to learn more about intellectual property, you can find out at our website at ww dot gearheartlaw.com. or you can use the contact form there and schedule a consultation with me, Richard Gerhart. We'd be happy to discuss any patent, trademark or copyright issues with you, so please keep that in mind. Passage to profit we will be back right after this. Do you hear that? That's the sound of uncertainty lurking under your hood. You know the feeling. I know I do.
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[00:26:03] Speaker B: Profit continues with Richard and Elizabeth Gearhart.
[00:26:06] Speaker D: Passage to Profit is a nationally syndicated radio show heard on 38 stations across the US. So no matter where you are, you can hear us or just check out our podcast, which was recently ranked the top 3% globally. We have also been recently selected by Feedspot podcasters database as a top ten entrepreneur interview podcast. So how about that? It's time for my charming wife Elizabeth to tell us all about her projects.
[00:26:35] Speaker E: So I have been working on this website and I had kind of retooled it. I still have it in the background, but right now I'm focusing my energy. This is one thing I think is one of those unforeseen things that we were talking about earlier, is that I always want to do way more than I have time or energy for. Right now, though, we're remodeling our podcast studio. So we have a building that law firms in. And of course, everybody's working remotely, and nobody wanted to come back right after.
[00:26:59] Speaker B: Covid, so I couldn't sell the building, so.
[00:27:02] Speaker E: Right. Nobody wants commercial space. So what do you do with that? We had broadcast this show during COVID passage, so I said, well, let's remodel it and let people record their podcasts up there. So we had somebody do a really cool design. Like, it's going to be really high end. I love this design. So we're getting this ready. And then I know a lot of people that want to start podcasts, but they need help. So I'm doing some coaching. I started a meetup group with Stacey Sherman called Podcast and YouTube creators community. It's online and it's in person. We do meetup groups and have various experts on how to market your podcast. What you need to consider with your podcast.
[00:27:35] Speaker D: So could you mention the name of that meetup again? Because I think there's a meetup coming up soon.
[00:27:41] Speaker E: Oh, yeah. So it's podcast and YouTube creators community, and it's free. It's just information for people that are interested in podcasting. It's free. You can come, you can be kind of incognito. We're really having a good time with it. And I also do have another podcast besides this one with Danielle Woolley called the Jersey Podcast, which we're also working on. And it's about cats. So that's where I'm at. Now it is time for Joe, Richard, and myself to interview our next guest, Arnulf Su, who has g reminders. Really cool platform. So welcome, Arnold. Tell us all about your platform.
[00:28:17] Speaker C: My background is sort of technical in nature. I spend a lot of time in technology, spend a disproportionate time on sales, marketing, and running a company and so forth. But I spent my past 25 years in enterprise b, two b software. I founded four companies. Some are venture backed, some are bootstrapped. This one is self funded. You asked about Germinders. It is effectively an end to end meeting management platform designed for financial advisors. That's our primary market segment. Product market fit, it's such an important thing. You can take a product, put it in one market, it doesn't work, it doesn't fit, but you take it somewhere else and it doesn't. So product market fit in my opinion is certainly for startups or people that are thinking about startups. It's a very important concept and it's going to hit you in the face when it happens. When you get sell through, you start selling, that's when you know you've hit product market fit. When we started Jira Mitres for example, it was a very horizontal product that really appealed to any professional that was generally service based. They were exchanging their time for compensation and so as a result they needed to notify people of no shows and things like that. Over time. Over the last few years, we focused very heavily on financial services. Service based model really integrated deeply with a lot of their tools. And so not only just online scheduling, but also SMS email notifications, AI note taking. You have AI note taking here in this podcast, for example, summarizing action items, pushing back to CRM, integrating with a lot of the systems surrounding that particular vertical market. So we're doing very well there and growing north of 100% year on year.
[00:29:53] Speaker D: What does G reminders do?
[00:29:55] Speaker C: It's a piece of software that you connect to the calendar that you use today. So it might use Outlook, might use Google Calendar, might use some other calendaring system. We sit on top of it. We allow people to basically schedule with you so you can share a link with your clients. It also supports things like routing and more complex scenarios. So if you want to put that on your website, ask maybe what's your zip code? Who would you like to talk to? Topics that you'd like to talk to. We would route you to the right person, that sort of thing. We would send you notifications to make sure that you actually show up to those meetings. We would join the meetings just like in the Zoom call for example, we would summarize, take transcripts, record these calls, and then create action items and task lists so that you can then do follow ups. And we also have automation around a lot of that. So really the end to end meeting life cycle, we sort of COVID it end to end.
[00:30:45] Speaker E: And one thing I really liked about it when I looked at your website and I've used calendly, but it's frustrating. Somebody will say schedule with my calendly link. It's like, what about these other two people? We can't all schedule on your calendly link. You allow multiple people to find a time that fits for them.
[00:31:00] Speaker C: Yeah, we handle all of that, and calendly is a great product and we run into them frequently. But again, calendly is designed for the masses, and we're very targeted against the markets that we focus on. And so we kind of know our market and back to product, market fit. That is a very important element for us. You can use our product across a number of different verticals, essentially, but we are very focused from a business standpoint against going after very specific markets.
[00:31:26] Speaker A: Preston, that was my question, actually, if I may, Richard, sorry to jump in. Just a quick question on the sales piece of that. It sounds like youve got a great background in the technical side, and youve developed this and even, God bless you, youve invested it yourself. Youre driving it. Theres nothing better. Thats the american dream. My question would be, you know, youve got the right product and youve got the market fit. You see, how do you reach that market as an entrepreneur? How do you go after those individual financial folks? How do you reach them?
[00:31:54] Speaker C: Distribution is always the biggest challenge for any business. First question people ask me, what do you think about this idea? My first question are you going to sell it? Are you going to get to that market? And you have to understand how people buy, and you have to understand where that audience is. Where do they get their information from? So we use a variety of strategies, traditional ones, as you can imagine, SEO SEM, things of that nature. But we also do lots of other types of things. So we do partnerships with other vendors, we do partnerships with consultants that are in the space. A big part of our value add is really being part of that ecosystem. So you don't want to be an island when it comes to software. You want to work with the other systems that are already installed in these ecosystems. And so we plug ourselves into that and we do deep, deep, deep integrations, right? Not just service level, I mean very deep. And it's a hand in gloves for a native fit. So when we do that, naturally you sort of get sold from those marketplaces. And then we also do lots of shows and events and trade shows. Those are actually still a thing in that particular market, but you have to be where your customers are.
[00:32:59] Speaker D: How did you find out that the financial groups are the best customers for your product.
[00:33:05] Speaker C: When we started, we were selling to a wide range of businesses, but we started to see pockets of concentration. And as an entrepreneur, you never know what youre going to get. I dont think necessarily its certainly in the early days you cant predict what next year or five years down the road is going to look like. Once you mature, you probably can get a pretty good sense of whats going on. But in the early days, you really need to listen. You need to listen a lot. You need to look at your customer base, see whats working, see whats not working. Talk to them. Get outside of the four walls. There are no answers inside of your office. They're all outside. So you got to go and talk to your customers, talk to your prospects, what are their problems, and really listen. And you have to do this yourself. You can't outsource it. You can't outsource your eyes and ears. It's really important. And that's exactly what we did. And we started to see pockets of concentration. Oh, these are your problems. How can we better serve you again, listen to them. Listen to the problems and listen to the impact of what those problems would produce if you were to actually solve them. There could be problems, but they may not be very impactful. So that's not really something worth working on. But what if you could save, you know, three to four months of time a year per person? What would that mean to your business? Well, it's 25% lift in revenue. Wow, that's pretty amazing. That's how you plug yourself into the value chain.
[00:34:22] Speaker E: Well, we have found with Gearhart Law especially, that it is better to work with vendors that have products that they've made. For law firms, there are so many considerations, and in your industry, financial, there are so many laws and rules. Do you run into any problem with your software with those?
[00:34:39] Speaker C: Compliance and governance is a huge deal. So we work with a lot of broker dealers in this space that sell products and services to firms that essentially rep for them. So the industry is very different than perhaps, you know, other industries that might be out there. So you need to understand that. You need to understand what type of rules you need to live by and what kind of compliance you need to have. So we've gone through all of that and it's been a learning curve, certainly for us. But that's part of sort of the moat that prevents other folks from necessarily coming into those markets because you do need to understand those things and you need to have those things in place, be it third party audits, be it different types of controls, data retention policies, et cetera, that really support the compliance and governments of those industries.
[00:35:26] Speaker D: So it seems to me that when I look at your software, it would be interesting to a lot of different industries, a lot of different types of customers. Why do you think it gets the pull from the financial folks that maybe it doesnt get someplace else? What are the features maybe of the software that appeal to them specifically?
[00:35:46] Speaker C: So at the surface, they all look sort of similar, right? So if you look at like a caliber or something, again, at the surface it kind of looks the same. But when you actually dig in and understand the different touch points and the integration points that exist, those integrations is really what sets us apart and understanding those workflows and the nuances and speaking in that language. So once you have the product, then you need to go make sure that you can translate that into value for the customers. But again, when you focus a business on a specific market and a specific problem, it focuses every single aspect of your business against that. So you know what features to build, you know what shows to attend, what the salespeople should say, what the talk track is. It really helps focus your business. If you're talking to government and you're talking to healthcare and you're talking to construction, they all use different terms and different languages. It's very difficult for an organization to understand all those things. It's even more difficult for your staff to understand all those things. And so I think if you can focus on a market, it really focuses your business and as a result, accelerates the pace significantly.
[00:36:51] Speaker E: Well, it's funny you say that. That's how I got into the marketing at Gearhart law. I'm actually a patent agent, and I was drafting patent applications for a while, but none of the marketing agencies could understand the nuances between a patent, a trademark, and a copyright. And they would write blogs for us to do this stuff. And it was like, no, it didn't work. So I ended up getting kind of stuck with it. But I do think you're stuck.
[00:37:13] Speaker D: Well, she's been stuck for 18 years, so must not be too bad.
[00:37:17] Speaker E: Joe, did you have another comment?
[00:37:19] Speaker A: I just thought there was some great insight there. I mean, first of all, you seem like a really seasoned business person that's very process driven. And boy, thats usually a great sign and path to success and pulling out a few lessons that I heard that I think could be applied to any business. Just listening to the things and the lessons that you shared is when youre starting a business. And youre small, right, which we all are when we start, look for something bigger, a broader rail system, something that you can ride and attach yourself to that. So if youre going to be the little guy, go look for a larger distribution partner, someone that you can work with, who can help you scale that, that can be applied to consumer business, to individuals, retail, you name it. Its one of the reasons why if you have a watch store, its not going to say Joe Lopez watches much on the outside. Youre going to hang signs for Rolex and Swatch and all the brands that would pull someone into that store. The second piece that I heard from a b, two b perspective or a business selling to a business is that you really have to have value to make sure that that other business who's already got a bunch of customers and has in this case a software application in place, you better sure as heck be bringing value to that for them to say, give me what you got, and let me incorporate that into my group there as well.
[00:38:35] Speaker D: When you were targeting the financial market, how much of it was pulled that came from recommendations, from other referrals, between other financial people within the market, and how much of it was sort of deliberate, focused marketing on your part?
[00:38:54] Speaker C: I'm a big fan of vertical markets. And so when we started, we thought there would be one or two verticals that we would go after. We weren't quite sure which one those were. So to some degree we had an idea. We wanted to do this conceptually as far as the specific vertical that grew somewhat organically. But again, you know, we talked to a lot of customers, why did you buy this? Why did you not buy this? And when we talked to financial services, oh, they, you know, they said things like, wed like it to do x, y, and z. Can you do those things? And when youre a startup, you know, you can move fast. Thats the benefit of a startup is you can really move fast. And so, you know, you listen to those things. If you hear it enough times, you dont need to hear it many. If you hear it three, four times, its a pattern. You go do it. Next week you show up, hey, I got this for you. When you do stuff like that, you get amazing results. At the flip side, you need to understand how big is the market. You have to do a little bit of analysis, right. But to the extent that it's big enough for you to play, go play.
[00:39:50] Speaker E: Arnold Sue G. Reminders. How do people find you?
[00:39:54] Speaker C: You can go to our website, geormines.com comma, I'm on LinkedIn and Twitter as well.
[00:39:58] Speaker E: So that's Arnulf, and his last name is Hsu. Thank you very much. You are listening to the passage to profit show with Richard Elizabeth Gearhart and our special guest Joe Lopez. So now we are on to Brett Kessler with the money multiplier. Tell us about the money multiplier, because we all want to multiply our money.
[00:40:16] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. So the money multiplier is a concept. It's driven by a book that was written by R. Nelson Nash. He wrote this book called becoming your own banker. And Arnelson Nash wrote this book back in 2000, actually. He was my mentor, and he passed away about five and a half years ago at age 87 years old in March of 2019.
And basically, the concept is about you being able to build, keep, and create wealth through your own debts and expenses that you already have. Right. All by just adding one step in your financial life, now you're able to recapture and recycle those dollars that we're currently going out to other individuals. So I actually just was in a conference. I learned about the concepts, and I thought it was too good to be true. Right? This was back in 2006. And then a couple years later, I learned that it wasn't too good to be true because a lot of my colleagues that were at that conference implemented this in their life. It completely changed my financial life, you know? And now fast forward. I've been teaching this around the country. 50 to 70 live events a year, 100, 120 Zoom events, virtual events, podcasts. We're now helping, like, over 14,000 people in the states, in every state of the country. We have canadian colleagues that we work with as well. So I just became very passionate about it, and I started teaching it after I implemented the concept myself, where I paid off almost a million dollars of debt, $984,711 in debt, to be exact. In a period of time of 39 months, three years and three months. I didn't have to change my cash flow. I didn't have to work harder. I didn't have to take any additional risk or lose control of my money. I simply added this one step in my financial life, and that's what changed it. So the concept of the whole infinite banking, it's driven by the wealth building tool of being able to build your own banking system. And the product that we use, the machine that we use to do that is a whole life insurance policy in a mutual company that pays dividends. Now, I know I say those bad words, life insurance, and everybody's mind tunes out right? There's probably somebody that says, oh, okay, life insurance. I'm going to go walk the dog, burp the baby, you know, do the dishes or whatever, because people think they know everything there is to know about life insurance. You may be thinking, how on earth would you ever use a life insurance product to build, keep and create wealth, right? Well, again, so this is what the rich have been doing for over 200 years. Like if you go study the Rockefellers, the Rothschilds, the Morgans, the Stanleys, the Barclays, like if you study how Walt Disney built Disneyland, how Ray Kroc funded McDonalds, how pampered chef got started before Warren Buffett bought pampered chef, this is what they're doing. This is exactly the tools that they're using. And if you even look back, so banks, conventional banks, are the number one purchasers of whole life insurance in the world. They own more life insurance than all of their land and their buildings combined. And since 2014, they've had quadrupled. They have quadrupled the amount of life insurance they purchase. Banks are insuring their key employees, like their grass, all through the banking system. And they're using this to build, keep and create wealth. And the thing you're able to do is take that life insurance policy, and it's specifically designed for high immediate cash value. So in other words, when you put money into this policy, you immediately can use the cash value. Now my definition of immediately is within 30 days. So you put money into this, you're able to use the cash value to go pay your debts, your expenses, to buy your products, your services, to make your investments, right? You can use the money for anything that you want. You never have to worry about sending it back into the policy once you bring it out.
[00:44:43] Speaker D: So you have a life insurance policy. You're paying, I don't know, uh, $500 a month or something and has a cash value of $100,000. You can get that hundred thousand dollars out after 30 days, and then you have the use of that money to do whatever you need to do to build a business or make an investment. Is that basically it? Well, you don't have to die.
[00:45:05] Speaker B: No, you don't have to die. And see, that's what most people think. Like when they buy life insurance, it's not going to benefit them, it's going to benefit the next generation, our children, our grandchildren, but not this type of policy. Now I want to be clear. This is not any type of life insurance policy. It's not a term policy, a variable policy, a universal, an IUL and index universal life policy. This is a specifically designed, specially engineered whole life policy that's in a mutual company that pays dividends, that has guaranteed growth, and it's designed for the high immediate cash value. So it all goes in to what type of policy it is and how the policy is actually designed. Right. So it's not the policy that you can go to your brother in law that sells life insurance and get. Right, we all have a brother in law that sells life insurance. Yes. It's not that type of policy. So the answer to your question even further is that the thing you mentioned, Richard, is the death benefit. The thing you got to remember is there's a death benefit on the policy, but there's also cash value in the policy. The cash that you're using is essentially a prepayment of the death benefit. The death benefit will always be higher than the cash value or the loan available. I can tell you if the insurance company thought you were going to die soon, they would never sell you the policy. Right?
[00:46:37] Speaker E: Right.
[00:46:37] Speaker B: You have to qualify to own a policy on your own body. So the thing that you're doing is you're essentially borrowing the cash value or the loan availability on the policy, which is always a lower number than the death benefit. Well, insurance company can never ever lose because the death benefit is always higher than that cash value and you are guaranteed to die. Right. So if you don't pay back the policy low, what happens is the death benefit will pay off the loan balance because they've already given you that money while you're living, and then the rest of the money goes to your beneficiaries tax free. So essentially what we're doing is adding one step in your financial life. That's all we're doing. We're putting the dollars inside of the policy first, because that's what we want to do, is pay tax on our money one time, one time only. We want to get that money into a tax free environment where it's growing tax free and the government is completely out of our hair. And now we're able to access and use that money to buy the things that we're going to buy in life anyway. For example, pay down debts, pay your mortgage, your credit cards, your car, your student loan payments, whatever it is. But then there's a time where, as time goes on, usually you tend to build more wealth in your life and you don't have as much third party debt. Maybe, or maybe you do. But now what you want to do is you want to go buy a business you want to invest in products or services, right? You want to use that money to do investments like I do a lot of real estate investing. It has nothing to do with my life insurance portfolio or how I do life insurance. But that's what I like to do. I understand real estate. I could go buy gold and silver, antique cars, bitcoins, cryptocurrency. I could do all of that. But I don't understand that. So what I do is I take that money from the policy and I'm using it to invest in that real estate, such as long term rentals, short term rentals, Airbnbs, Vrbos. And I also do lending. I lend money to people for projects, primarily real estate. So I'll put money into real estate development deals where I'm in first position collateral. Now, how I add that one step is like, most people would just take the money and say, okay, let me loan you the money or let me invest in this piece of real estate. Well, I add the one step. I put the money in the policy first, and then from the policy, I take a loan from the general fund of the insurance company. I don't take a withdrawal. I take a loan, which is key, because when I take a loan, I don't ever take my money out of the policy. So all my money is still in the policy, growing and compounding in that tax free growth rate environment. And I'm using that money to make that investment or to buy that piece of real estate. So my money is working for me over and over again. It's got multiple uses, and I never have to pay back the policy loan, all right? And I never have to explain to the insurance company why I'm taking the money out or why I am using the money. Now, if I do pay back the policy loan, which is great, then I have that money there immediately again, not like as far as 30 days, immediately today, immediately to use again right now to go out and fund other deals. So really what I'm doing is I'm recycling and recapturing money, and I'm using it over and over. And I'm just going to point out two books. There's a guy named Robert Kiyosaki that wrote a book called Rich Dad, Poor dad. He also wrote another book called Second Chance. This concept that I teach is exactly what Robert Kiyosaki talks about in his book second chance. And there's another guy named Tony Robbins. Tony Robbins wrote a book called Money Master the game in chapter 5.4 of that Tony Robbins book. This is exactly the concept that Tony Robbins teaches. However he talks about it, him and Robert talk about it in their books. But the problem is, is they make it too complicated and difficult to understand. And when people read it, they just read right through it and don't understand what's going on.
[00:51:00] Speaker E: I want to butt in for a minute and ask Joe if he has a question for you.
[00:51:03] Speaker A: Yeah. So it's totally new to me and I'm just curious as to how it's going.
[00:51:08] Speaker B: It's going great. You know, I started as a customer of this. I actually implemented this in my own life back in 2008. I paid off that almost a million dollars of debt in 39 months. And I became really passionate about this because nobody ever taught me this. I was always taught, just like probably a lot of you guys are with your parents, your grandparents, friends, colleagues and co workers. They say, what? Go get a good job. Go work for 30 or 40 years, max out your 401K, your IRA, your qualified plan, and the government will take care of you down the road. Well, we know that doesn't happen. And that was a load of crap, right? That just doesn't happen for most people. So I was on a mission to share this because I couldn't believe what the concept did in my own life. So I started teaching this in March of 2012, about twelve and a half years ago. And every single year, year after year after year, I mean, all the way through the whole entire transition, business has increased. More clients have come on board to implement this concept in their life. And keep in mind, I'm not the only one that does this. You don't have to do it with Brent Kessler at the money multiplier, right? There's other people you could do this with, but it's just getting the word out there. See the problem in America. And again, I'm not going to steal the quote. I'm going to repeat the quote that the late Will Rogers said. He says, the problem in America isn't so much what people don't know, it's what people think they know that just ain't so, so true. A lot of the stuff that we've been taught about wealth and money is just simply not the truth. So I was on a mission to peel back the onion to see how this really, really works in the financial life, right? As far as in people's financial life. And here we are, twelve and a half years later, you know, so the money multiplier, the thing, you can google the money multiplier, you can go Google my name, Brent Kessler, you'll see pages and pages of plan designs, case studies, success stories, testimonials. I have a full 90 plus minute presentation that breaks down the concept and how it works on our website, themoneymultiplier.com. i also wrote a book called mapping out the millionaire mystery that I'll offer to all your listeners. Just go to the website or send me an email brennathemoneymultiplier.com dot I'll send you the ebook version of that book that I wrote, but don't take my word for it. Go do the research yourself and go watch the testimonials and the success stories of the thousands of clients that we have out there online.
[00:53:55] Speaker E: Well, Brett, it sounds like this is a passion project for you.
[00:53:59] Speaker B: I'm just on a mission to serve people. Serve people. Serve people with this knowledge that people don't understand. Just like Joe said, he's never heard about this. And I travel around the country and I speak live on stage. And if 10% of the audience of that audience that I'm speaking to, whether it's live or virtual, has heard about this concept, but it's a lot it be. People don't know. They just don't know what they don't know.
[00:54:27] Speaker E: Well, Brett, you have me convinced. The money multiplier.com. get the book mapping out the millionaire mystery. Listeners, you're listening to the passage to profit show with Richard and Elizabeth Gearhart. Our special guest, Joe Lopez. And we will be right back.
[00:54:41] Speaker B: I'm Jack, CEO and co
[email protected], dot.
[00:54:44] Speaker D: When I left my job as a Wall street banker back in my twenties.
[00:54:47] Speaker C: I felt completely lost trying to navigate the process of hiring a financial advisor. I thought it should be easy to find the right financial advisor.
[00:54:56] Speaker D: So I created a place where young families could feel understood and their unique.
[00:55:00] Speaker C: Needs would be met with empathy and expertise.
[00:55:03] Speaker D: That's why I started usehabits.com, where we.
[00:55:06] Speaker C: Help you find your financial advisor free of charge.
[00:55:09] Speaker D: Usehabits.com dot it's passage to profit now it's time for Noah's retrospective. Noah Fleischmann is our producer here at passage to profit, and he just can't observe our future without recognizing the past.
[00:55:24] Speaker C: We've come a long way since the late 18 hundreds. We don't have yellow journalism from some big newspaper mogul anymore. Now we have something called home pages, and they come from a diversity of huge sources. That's a lot of information. Well, we need it.
[00:55:39] Speaker B: News is, after all, a 24 hours element. So every source wants to make sure.
[00:55:43] Speaker C: Your eyes are on them.
[00:55:45] Speaker B: Every time you log on, there's always.
[00:55:47] Speaker C: News happening, and they'll make sure that there is, like headlines that say legendary actor gone at 96 or blinking could be an early sign of this fatal disease.
[00:55:57] Speaker B: Once you click and scroll through all the obligatory pop up ads in irrelevant introduction, it's nice to know you likely don't have oroplakulitis. And it's good to see that one time Hollywood extra Verland Abnermeyer is getting.
[00:56:08] Speaker C: His rightful posthumous recognition. When I was a kid, long before homepages, sometimes I actually felt a little guilty about switching over to an odd couple rerun when the 11:00 news came on. But scrolling past a commercial homepage? In reality, that's pretty virtual now. More with Richard and Elizabeth.
[00:56:29] Speaker E: Passage to profit so now it is time for secrets of the entrepreneurial mind, Joe Lopez, who can be found at Jlopez III on LinkedIn.
[00:56:39] Speaker D: Catch him on his website, www. Dot Ankora athenae advisory.com.
[00:56:45] Speaker E: What is a secret?
[00:56:46] Speaker A: You can share make your routines as routine as possible. Whether it's the clothes you get up to wear every day, the breakfast that you do or you don't make. Get yourself into a routine. Make that your ritual.
[00:57:00] Speaker D: I really like the routine part. I'm very oriented like that, too.
[00:57:04] Speaker E: Arnolf suit greminders.com what is your secret?
[00:57:08] Speaker C: You can share process over outcome. Try to simplify things when you are working with issues. Try to find the root cause of those problems.
[00:57:18] Speaker E: I think that's great advice, right? Kessler the moneymultiplier.com what's your secret?
[00:57:24] Speaker B: Yeah, a couple things. Number one, mindset systems and mentors, right? You got to have the right mindset to start with. You have to follow a system, a proven system, and then have a mentor, have a coach to help guide. You. Don't think you can do this all on yourself. There's no I in team, right? So be open to other people that want to help. And I would also say, pay attention, get excited and never quit. There's going to be a lot of people that come into your life, and they're going to try to bust down and tear down your dreams, your vision and your goals. And a lot of those people that do that are people that are close to you, even your close friends and your family members. Sometimes we have to fire our family members. I know that doesn't sound good, but some. But I mean, really, I'm not saying don't go to Thanksgiving or Christmas with them or not but when it comes to business and what your vision and mission is, sometimes they're not the best people to be around. So just be an outside of the box thinker. And if everything in your life is very comfortable for you, and you're going through day to day, and it's very comfortable, you're probably not doing it right. So you're going to want to sweat a little bit. You're going to want to get flush a little bit. You're going to want to feel very uncomfortable. And then you're probably knowing that you're doing the right thing. It's not easy, and it all doesn't come easy. And sometimes we have to get out of our comfort zone.
[00:58:52] Speaker E: That is great advice. Okay. Richard Gearhart. Gearhart Law. Patents, trademarks, copyrights. What is your secret?
[00:58:59] Speaker D: Well, we've seen a lot of entrepreneurs over the years at Gearhart Law. So far, we've managed to help over 4500 clients since the law firm opened. That's a lot of different businesses. I want to go back to what Arnold said because I see that the companies that missed it were the ones that didn't understand their market. And I think that is so important. You really got to understand the end user, why they're buying, what the value is, who they are, and then how to reach them. I want to amplify that because I think that that is absolutely key to growing a business.
[00:59:36] Speaker E: My secret is a little down in the weeds this time. I would say maybe you've been balancing the family checkbook. That's not enough. I think that if you're going to go into business, you should take an overview class on accounting, business accounting. You should know something about it. And be really careful who you hire to do your accounting because there are a lot of people out there that can't do it right. If you don't have the data in the numbers, you can't run your business. And you got to kind of understand how that comes about.
[01:00:03] Speaker D: That's great. Passage to profit is a nationally syndicated radio show appearing in 31 markets across the United States. In addition, passage to profit has also been recently selected by Feedspot podcasters Database as a top ten entrepreneur interview podcast. Thank you to the P two P team, our producer Noah Fleischman and our program coordinator, Alicia Morrissey and Rishikat Busari. Look for our podcast tomorrow, anywhere you get your podcasts. Our podcast is ranked in the top 3% globally. You can also find us on Facebook, Instagram X, and on our YouTube channel. And remember, while the information on this program is believed to be correct. Never take a legal step without checking with your legal professional first. Gerhardt Law is here for your patent, trademark and copyright needs. You can find
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