[00:00:02] Speaker A: Ramping up your business.
[00:00:03] Speaker B: The time is near. You've given it heart, now get it in gear.
[00:00:08] Speaker A: It's Passage to Profit with Richard and Elizabeth Gearhart.
[00:00:12] Speaker B: I'm Richard Gearhart, founder of Gearhart Law, a full service intellectual property law firm specializing in patents, trademarks and copyrights.
[00:00:20] Speaker C: And I'm Elizabeth Gearhart, not an attorney, but I do marketing for Gearhart Law and I have my own startups and podcasts.
[00:00:26] Speaker B: Welcome to Passage to Profit, the road to Entrepreneurship, where we talk with entrepreneurs and celebrities who tell their stories about their business journey and also share helpful insights about the successes that they've had.
[00:00:38] Speaker C: Did you know that 2 in 5Americans want to start a new business or are business owners? Well, we have lots of information to help them too.
[00:00:46] Speaker B: And we also talk a little about the intellectual property that helps them flourish. It is time now for our distinguished guests, Nadia Atwal. And she is an amazing, award winning media expert, TV host and author. She is also an expert on AI too. So, Nadia, maybe we can start with that a little bit.
[00:01:05] Speaker D: It's a very diverse career. I started out as a journalist, then was diving into areas of tv, TV production, media production, publicity and management. And in the end, when you start out like I did in the entertainment industry, it's all related. And what you see when you're a publicist, which is one of my main roles, is the more skills you add, the more you can serve the people that you work with your clients. For example, when you're working with clients and there is a magazine interested in putting them inside or on the COVID I was always fascinated how the magazines had a great talent to always pick the worst picture. So.
[00:01:57] Speaker C: It'S like your driver's license picture.
[00:01:59] Speaker D: Exactly. So then I learned, okay, don't give them too many choices. And then I became a little bit more involved. I said, you know what, I think I need to do the whole thing myself. So I produced the shoots, I did the post production, I taught myself how to do that, how to basically retouch GQ covers and Maxim covers and just in order to serve my clients best so they didn't just sound great and look great in reality, but also had their dream cover, had their dream spread that goes with everything. I mean, as a journalist, of course I can also control the narrative. So I'm writing most of the articles that I can, that I can then place with the magazines or collaborate with the editors very closely. So my skillset as a writer comes in my skill set as an on camera interviewer, as a TV host, as a Producer and now of course with AI and everything is happening so fast on that front. I'm on the board of the Global AI Council and so I realized that again, I'm serving those I'm working with and also myself best. If I'm really adapting quickly, things are not happening within years, but they are changing within weeks. So I always like to be on the forefront using AI to save myself time, but also to improve the quality of work that I do. And AI can be very helpful. It's not about replacing us, it's about creating a better version of our work.
[00:03:34] Speaker C: Is it possible in this day and age, Nadia, for a business owner or somebody that wants to get a lot of business to bury their head in the sand and stay off of media and social media and just be under the radar, very low key.
[00:03:47] Speaker D: I think if you are starting out now as a business owner, I would be very skeptical that that is the path to success. If you have already been well established 10 years ago, 15 years ago, and already made it big, probably it's just right now I would not recommend that because you're making your life unnecessarily difficult and you don't have to spend much time on social media. I, for example, when you looked at my Instagram, I don't post very often and the reason why I have the amount of followers that I have is because I'm in media. So by being in media, on television and quoted in magazines and writing articles, people are finding me. But I also don't like to constantly post because I find it not that relevant and I don't feel that self important that every little move I make and wherever I go I need to take a selfie. So when I post I actually then tell my friends and I say, hey, I just posted this, you know, would love. And since I'm not doing that very often, I don't go on their nerves and they're actually quite happy to do that.
[00:04:58] Speaker C: Wow, that's really a good point.
[00:05:00] Speaker B: That's really great. When we started the law firm, we relied on digital advertising. This was back in what, 2006, 2007. There were very few attorneys that were relying on websites to get business. And I was told that you're never going to get business on the Internet or the people that are going to sign up are going to be terrible. And it's all about relationships. Well, the website kind of started the relationship and we were really lucky, Elizabeth and I, when we were building Earhart Law, that the people would come and you would, we got Fortune 500 companies contacting us through our website. But now it's that the tables have turned. There's so much media out there, there's so much noise out there that it's no longer such a unique thing to be out on social. Right. So how do we as business people address that issue?
[00:05:52] Speaker D: I definitely think that TV is still king in terms of image and I definitely see that being in the media is now a given or has to be a given for business owners. You see that New York is always a very good trend indicator. When you look at doctors, for example, I moved from Los Angeles to New York and I had to find all new doctors and I fell for my own hype. I narrowed it down to a few doctors that had similar education, similar Google views, and in the end I picked the one that had the most media. I thought, might as well guess this person is staying up to date. Cannot be a dodo bird if he's constantly, or she's constantly being quoted. So down to the doctor that delivered my babies, I thought, what's good enough for Brooke Shields is good enough for me. And even there pick that doctor. Also, because he was listed as top this, top that, he was in several magazines, I think we are swayed by that. And it's almost now at the point where businesses that don't have media exposure are being viewed almost as suspicious. So you gotta get with it. And you see it with a lot of startups, the first thing that they do is as seen here, as seen there. Sometimes it's paid media, sometimes it's organic media. I always like a little bit of both. But the worst thing is not doing anything. I tell every business owner, no matter how much money you make, always set a little bit aside to invest in your own brand building and your own PR and in the PR of your business.
[00:07:28] Speaker E: So we're in a little bit of a digital renaissance in terms of like YouTube. And you had mentioned television, like traditional broadcast TV. How do you think it sizes up or is in comparison to a YouTube where people have the opportunity to now own their content, monetize their content. In terms of a numbers game, the impressions are a lot higher and a lot more visible than on the TV broadcast side.
[00:07:52] Speaker D: Yes. I mean streaming in terms of numbers is beating tv. We know that from Nielsen. Of course it would be ideal that you build your own YouTube channel. It's of course very time consuming. It's not easy to get that footing. But streaming and investing in streaming and your own channels, controlling your own narrative is fantastic and is important. You know, and that is what gets others ahead. If the day had more than 24 hours and I didn't need to sleep, I would probably also do a YouTube channel. I would be on even more social media platforms. But at the end of the day, I'm always also a believer in quantity is not always as good as quality. So if you do quality social media posting, if you are on good media and you can leverage that and you can feed your social media with that, you save a lot of time. You have a multiple in one and you're boosting your image and you're boosting the SEO of your website. Don't work more, just work smarter.
[00:08:55] Speaker C: It's ideal. If you can do it all yourself, have your own YouTube channel. If you can't, if you can go on somebody else's media like Richard just did, that has a ton of followers. I think really leveraging media too, to go on other shows.
[00:09:11] Speaker D: Exactly.
[00:09:12] Speaker C: Is really helpful.
[00:09:13] Speaker B: But I still think, though, that when we talk about quantity versus quality, part of the quality equation is not just writing it well, using complete sentences with periods, having nice pictures, but also showcasing things that you've actually done. So to me, in the legal profession, it's important for our potential clients to know, hey, we got this patent, we got this trademark, we won this case, we're capable, we know our stuff. If you can show that you've really got the chops, that's a big step forward.
[00:09:44] Speaker D: Yeah, you cannot be humble these days, at least not on social media. You got to be willing to showboat. And if you are actually a person that does quality work, and then on top of that you are showcasing it the right way, then it's slam dunk.
[00:10:01] Speaker B: That's the one, two punch.
[00:10:02] Speaker C: Do you have a story, Nadia, about somebody that you've worked with that you've helped them propel themselves through the media?
[00:10:08] Speaker D: Yeah, I had several, but there's one that is pretty recent and pretty magnificent. I met a CEO on social media on Clubhouse at that time, and he was divorced father who was in Texas while his kids were with a mom in Canada. And it was the pandemic and he couldn't travel and he still wanted to read with his kids. And he thought, oh, let's see what's out there? Is there maybe a reading app and an interactive reading app. There was nothing out there. And so he created it himself. He had no knowledge really of apps, and he told me about it, and my kids learned reading through apps. And I think that most parents are very familiar with the reading apps. And so I was very excited about it. And we were a mini team. We didn't even have proof of concept. But I got him big media, very, very fast. I got the company mentioned in several media that was very notable. And then parallel, the team was reaching out to get some strong partners and they said, hey, you know, Shaquille O'Neal is known for liking brands that add values to people's lives. And we already, we were small, but we had a lot to show for. We looked bigger than we were also due to the media. And Shaq is a partner of the app. It's at Soma. It's a wonderful reading app and it shows that. When I think the question I always get is from startup less, when is the right time to start with media? And I said yesterday, you don't even need to have a product. There have been stories of companies that didn't even have a product, just did media, and then they created a product afterwards after there was such a buzz and such an interest. So just do it. And this was one of those cases where it was most helpful.
[00:11:57] Speaker E: You hadn't made a point earlier about, like, the use of AI and like how people can integrate that into their marketing. Do you feel like AI has made people a little lazy creatively or can create that tendency in people and where it doesn't come off as authentic?
[00:12:14] Speaker D: Yeah, I mean, you can definitely still detect when people just take an article and they run it quickly through ChatGPT, the professional. I can sometimes tell that this is something that this person didn't write. There are certain key phrases, but you can also instruct AI better and better. So this is almost, as I said, this changes weekly. You know, suddenly you have breakthroughs. It's the same way where we heard that was not too long ago this year when chat GTP passed the bar exam and the 45 percentile, and then a few months later in the 90 percentile. So, you know, so we should be careful.
[00:12:57] Speaker B: That's better than a lot of lawyers out there. Maybe we should hire ChatGPT. But I do find that the more I use ChatGPT, the more I'm able to identify ChatGPT materials. Right. So it's sort of like the more you get involved with it, the more you see, oh, well, that was definitely.
[00:13:16] Speaker D: But the more also, that's what people forget. The More you instruct ChatGPT accurately and the more details, the better the outcome. So you gotta kind of train it a little bit. And it's like with a friendship, the more you put in the more you get out.
[00:13:32] Speaker C: So, Nadia, if somebody is gonna start a business and start with getting themselves in the media, which media do you suggest they go into first? I mean, everybody kind of gets on social media, but could you go straight on TV and say, hey, I'm starting this new business?
[00:13:47] Speaker D: As I said, it's still the gold standard and everybody wants to be on tv. It depends on your story, though. So what I as a publicist have always done, and that's where marketing and PR should always be, two separate things. The worst thing that you can do is putting PR under marketing. These are two separate things, but they complement each other very well. So with pr, what I do, if you're really a publicist, you. You really, really want to get to know your client. You want to know exactly what sets this person apart from others. That is always the mission. And then we find the hooks, the angles. There might be something, a hobby, there might be just a certain story. And you know, reporters are also always looking for experts on certain stories that they're writing about. So it depends. You just should do as much as you can. Of course, on your own. You should have nice profiles on LinkedIn. You should build your network. Your network is your net worth. So that is still the way it goes. You gotta reach out. You should also reach out to certain media people. You know, on LinkedIn, everybody is there. They might not always respond to you right away, but the better your story becomes. And the hardest part is always to get the first good media placements. Once it's rolling, it's rolling. And you start maybe with something local and go from there to state media or state newspaper, for example, and from there take it to the national level. Start somewhere, get the ball rolling.
[00:15:19] Speaker B: We are here with Nadia Atwal and she has just been amazing and informative in every way.
[00:15:26] Speaker D: So makes fun to know one.
[00:15:29] Speaker B: Stay tuned for more passage to profit after this.
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[00:17:31] Speaker A: Now back to Passage to Prophet. Once again, Richard and Elizabeth Gearhart and.
[00:17:36] Speaker C: Our special guest, Nadia Atwal. Oh my gosh. We have had the most fabulous discussion, but we're not done yet. And then we have two other people that are coming on and some other segments on the show. We really give you a great variety that everybody loves. So my next question for Nadia is you were gracious enough to be on a panel at an event that I ran talking about getting people into media. And you said you really look for people with a big presence and you can really spot talent. Can you talk about that a little?
[00:18:04] Speaker D: Yeah. I mean, it's very interesting that very often people that want to be on tv, most are not necessarily that suited for it. And then those who should be on tv, they're shy. And you definitely want to have somebody who doesn't have the personality of a dial tone. You want somebody who is exciting. So we had had situations where a CEO would say, can you get me on this show? Can you get me on that show? And we are within the teams like, oh God, do we have A vice president who Exciting, because when a TV booker brings you on and you have that shot and you're doing a good job, they bring you back. I mean, that's how I was booked again. I was on Fox Business, and it was actually very organic how it happened. I was there with the client, spoke behind the scenes with the host about foreign policies and politics. And then he said, you know, can we have you also in the segment? I said, well, you have to ask my client. My client was so happy that she didn't have to carry the burden of the segment. Yeah, bring Nadia in. And that was the beginning of a beautiful relationship. And then the producer saw me and booked me. And I would pitch sometimes clients, and I would say, okay, okay, okay, we're gonna book that client, but we want you on the show. So. And I thought, okay, there's always somebody smarter. There's always somebody better. But at least I'm not boring, I guess. So, yeah, that is what I would say. Don't be boring. Go for it. Have fun. And that is what gets you the next booking.
[00:19:30] Speaker B: I do think, though, the practice makes perfect, right? Your communication skills have improved over time. The more segments you've done, the more exposure you've got. You understand the process better.
[00:19:41] Speaker D: That's why I always say, do it, do everything. The more the better. In the beginning, I've seen it with clients that were very stiff, and then after doing it for some months, they were like they owned the show, you know, and they loved it. It's also very addicting, and that's what I heard from clients. So once they start with the interviews, they find it really like an addiction, you know, and that's good. You should have fun with it. You should enjoy yourself. I mean, be prepared. Try your best. The most important thing is your smile. When you're happy, you're right away more appealing. If you're just sitting there and looking pretty neutral. If you're not excited to be there, nobody's excited to watch you. So that's when we sometimes do media training where we're doing the pretend interview. I'm playing the journalist that is going to interview the client, and I'm trying to get a little bit excitement out of them. And I tell them, you know, like, be friendly. Smile. Be excited. Show us that it's a pleasure to be here. It's like a virus. It jumps on the audience. So never underestimate that. A smile goes a long way. That was probably one of my secrets to success. When I pitched clients, I heard very often from others. You know, you sound so friendly, like you're smiling. I can hear you smiling. And that is true. And that in itself is very helpful in my job. I think it's helpful in any job. People like to feel warm and welcome and if you can bring that to the table, it's exciting no matter if you're on television or just at the bus station, like exercising a muscle and you're getting better and better at it and then it becomes second nature.
[00:21:14] Speaker B: Nadia Atwal, thank you so much. And where can our audience find you?
[00:21:19] Speaker D: So they can either find me on LinkedIn, nadiatwal.net or you go to our company IBHMedia. We're going to be happy to talk with you and see what we can do together.
[00:21:31] Speaker B: Thank you so much. Passage to Profit is a nationally syndicated radio show appearing in 38 markets across the United States. In addition, Passage to Profit has also been recently selected by Feedspot Podcasters Database as a top 10 entrepreneur interview podcast. Thank you to the P2P team, our producer Noah Fleischman, and our program coordinator Alicia Morrissey and Rishiket Busari. Look for our podcast tomorrow anywhere you get your podcasts. Our podcast is ranked in the top 3% globally. You can also find us on Facebook, Instagram X and on our YouTube channel. And remember, while the information on this program is believed to be correct, never take a legal step without checking with your legal professional first. Gearhart Law is here for your patent, trademark and copyright needs. You can find
[email protected] and contact us for a free consultation. Take care everybody. Thanks for listening and we'll be back next week.
