[00:00:00] Speaker A: Everyone can touch AI. Everyone can play with it.
[00:00:03] Speaker B: I know a lot of people are scared to be on video.
[00:00:05] Speaker C: You gotta evolve. The landscape is definitely changing.
[00:00:09] Speaker D: I'm Richard Gerhardt.
[00:00:10] Speaker B: And I'm Elizabeth Gerhardt. You've just heard some great tidbits from our show. Stay tuned for the rest.
[00:00:18] Speaker E: Want to protect your business?
[00:00:20] Speaker D: The time is near.
[00:00:21] Speaker E: You've given it heart, now get it in gear. It's passage to profit with Richard and Elizabeth Gearhart.
[00:00:29] Speaker D: I'm Richard Gerhardt, founder of Gearhart Law, a full service intellectual property law firm specializing in patents, trademarks and copyrights.
[00:00:37] Speaker B: And I'm Elizabeth Gearhart. Not an attorney, but I work at Gearhart Law doing the marketing. And I have my own startups.
[00:00:42] Speaker D: Welcome to passage to profit, everyone. The road to entrepreneurship, where we talk with startups, small businesses, and discuss the intellectual property that helps them flourish. We have a very special guest, Paula Felon, who's an advisor for global AI solutions. And she's going to be talking to us about the interface between artificial intelligence and public relations.
[00:01:05] Speaker B: And then we have Stephen Goburn with steam worldwide music works. Can hardly wait to hear what he's doing.
[00:01:12] Speaker D: But before we get to our distinguished guests, it's time for IP in the news. And what is IP in the news today?
[00:01:18] Speaker B: Well, apparently there is a trademark battle, but it's not a typical trademark battle. Trader Joe's has their name and their logo. And the employees there were trying to unionize and they took the name. They didn't take the picture. They took a different picture and they made a tote bag just like the Trader Joe's tote bag, only different. But they had the name Trader Joe's. So Trader Joe's took them to court and said, you can't use our name. That's trademark violation.
[00:01:41] Speaker D: Right. So a union who was trying to organize at Trader Joe's created a tote bag that had the Trader Joe's name on it. And they were using this to try to raise money. And of course, Trader Joe's has a trademark on the term Trader Joe's. So as part of the labor negotiation, they decided to sue the people who were trying to organize for trademark infringement and the court threw it out, which was a pretty interesting development because normally this would be considered a trademark infringement. Right. But because they were trying to organize and they used the trader Joe's name, the court said that was okay, right?
[00:02:20] Speaker B: Well, the union people were using it to raise funds by selling these tote bags. But Trader Joe's, I think what the court thought was Trader Joe's wasn't really mad that they were using the trademark. They were mad that they were trying to unionize and that's why they threw it out.
[00:02:32] Speaker D: This is actually the second case where this has happened. It's really interesting. In New Jersey, they had the same type of case with medieval times. Medieval times employees, you know, the people with big turkey legs and the jousting and all that stuff. They were trying to organize into a union. And management said, oh, we're going to sue you because you're using the name in your union organizing activities. And same thing happened. The court threw out the lawsuit because they were labor organizers.
[00:03:01] Speaker B: Okay, well, let's see what everybody else thinks about this.
[00:03:03] Speaker D: Yeah. Kenya, what are your thoughts?
[00:03:05] Speaker F: It's very interesting.
[00:03:06] Speaker B: Does that mean I get to go.
[00:03:07] Speaker F: Like, use fake Louis Vuitton somewhere? As long as I am saying I'm fundraising.
[00:03:13] Speaker D: I'm going to start a union movement for Louis Vuitton.
[00:03:18] Speaker B: It's just weird.
[00:03:19] Speaker F: It's so weird. But I guess, Richard, because you're our intellectual property expert, like, how would you have maybe fought this case a little?
[00:03:27] Speaker D: Know, I'm not really sure that there is a way to argue these things effectively because the courts are throwing them out before the proceedings even get down the road. So if there's not any testimony, there's not any documents, they're just looking at it and saying, nope, we're not going to entertain that. My question is, how far will they go? I mean, if it's just one trademark, that's another thing. But what if after they're done organizing, the union starts to go into business and using the trader Joe's name for something. Right. So how far does this go? Paula, what are your thoughts here?
[00:04:00] Speaker A: The closest thing I could get to would be the Authors Guild versus Google, which has brought folks around to it's okay to take some ip if it's for the good of the whole. So it sounds like it's a little bit like that. The intent of a trademark was to be able to protect the image and the words. So I'm not quite sure why this.
[00:04:18] Speaker D: Is okay now, Steve, what are your thoughts here?
[00:04:21] Speaker C: I would have to see the imagery, the type of fonts. Is it a similar font to the actual, you know, things like that? And I'm thinking, know how I relate to this. On the music front is the whole sampling thing or interpolation, how some songs can be inspired from other songs and how that goes into chord. So I'm just thinking along those lines so I get where the court is coming from because they're trying to unionize. And maybe they're like, let's throw it out and see where this goes. So that's kind of what I'm thinking.
[00:04:51] Speaker D: Yeah, but you raised some interesting points, like maybe it depends on the business, but if it were like a record label or something and the employees were trying to unionize, when they start using the record label's music or other artists music, very interesting precedent, for sure. As always, if you are interested in learning more about trademarks, you can go to our website, learnmouttrademarks.com, and download free content. Great information about trademarks. Learnmoreabouttrademarks.com.
[00:05:21] Speaker B: Or you can always call Richard, or.
[00:05:23] Speaker D: You can call me, too. Go to gearheartlaw.com and we can talk about this or whatever else you want around trademarks. So we have Paula feelin with us, and as I mentioned at the outset of the show, she's going to be talking to us about the intersection of artificial intelligence and public relations. And really a fascinating topic. We've had a lot of people talking about artificial intelligence on the show, but I've never really thought about mixing artificial intelligence and public relations. So that's kind of a new spin. So welcome to the show, Paula. Tell us what you're doing in this area.
[00:05:55] Speaker A: A lot of things. I'd been working in quantum computing prior, and I had been involved in several different projects with AI basically within the platforms. And then when OpenAI rolled out chat GBT, it just changed the world in a very, very dramatic way. So that anybody who's listening, anyone who has a startup or an existing company, AI is the future. I've been in tech for a lot of years, and there's nothing like this ever. Everyone can touch AI. Everyone can play with it. Right now, in this moment in time, anyone who has an idea has imagination. In fact, that's what I say about AI. Its only limitation is your own imagination. Anything that you want to do, it can do with you right now. Anything that you have a question about how to fix my product, how to move my product, the next level, any of those things, AI can help you address those right now.
[00:06:41] Speaker D: But aren't you concerned that AI is going to eat us alive?
[00:06:44] Speaker A: It's going to change our life.
[00:06:46] Speaker D: It's really going to change.
[00:06:47] Speaker A: It is everything. And that is why 80% of that.
[00:06:50] Speaker D: Doesn'T worry you, though.
[00:06:51] Speaker A: No, it's here, and we live with it. And this is what's happened.
[00:06:54] Speaker B: Some people are afraid of it, don't like it, think it's horrible, but it doesn't matter like you're saying, because you have to know what it is and you have to know how people are using it if you're in business so that you can use it the same way or better.
[00:07:07] Speaker D: You know what, I am generally opposed to government regulation, but I will say this is one area where I think we need to take a hard look about how fast we're going to let the genie out of the bottle because this can just kind of take over and there's no management of this. And so where there's certainly a lot of great things, there's a lot of stuff that is really scary. We saw a program where they were using AI to make drugs and the scientists, just to see if they could do it, were making poisons, using AI to make really effective poisons. So there's a downside to this. We're silly if we don't try to deal with that.
[00:07:44] Speaker A: We absolutely have to. And the EU is one of the places to look to first because the EU has done the best part, especially around privacy. For instance, the best way to go after this isn't going to be around copyright infringement per se because AI can copy everything, right? We know about Getty and music in particular. There's going to be a lot of issues around the creatives losing to AI. But the way California is approaching it is they're looking at it as a privacy issue. So where is AI attacking privacy? And that's sort of where the court is going there as opposed to trying to say copyright because they've already given up, it's done. So. You are so correct. But the genie is already out of the bottle. It's already there. And so we're going to start clamping down and clamping down. But at the moment, if you've got a great idea, this is the way.
[00:08:24] Speaker D: To be able to go, we can do this. It's just a question of do people see it as a danger because there.
[00:08:30] Speaker A: Are only five companies who are really running this whole thing, or maybe even less so you've only got a few that really have the power in the platform that we're all using.
[00:08:38] Speaker F: Well, doesn't that make it a little more scary though, that it's already being monopolized and it's so brand new?
[00:08:43] Speaker A: Very much because one of the things that's going to start happening is what I'm talking about now of everyone to just jump in, really understand what it is, because eventually you will get less and less access. Only corporations will have access to the full power and the individuals, which we now have the same access a corporation has, it will disappear so that the masses will not have access, but we will be impacted by it. It will change our day to day life.
[00:09:06] Speaker D: That's also scary, because as a small business person and one who advocates for small businesses, this is one of the things that levels the playing field. But something tells me that there are people out there who don't want a level playing field, right. And if they can restrict and manage this, then that also makes me even more concerned. And the fact that they're using people's information and their personal information. When people started posting stuff on Facebook, did they ever think that AI was going to come along and start collecting that information and creating all sorts of dossiers about people and all sorts of stuff like that? It was just never even thought of when you started. But now look at where we're at, right? And there's nothing anybody could really do to stop that.
[00:09:49] Speaker B: To Paula's point, you have to know about it. As much as your interest will take you or your tech ability will take you, you have to know about it because it is impacting our future and it is impacting your future. I love this philosophical discussion, but I'm kind of interested. We've been using it in our marketing for over the last year. That's, I think, one of the places when they brought out AI, the people in marketing were like, yes, we're going to grab this and run with it. And it's creeping into every other area a little more slowly. So what are you doing with it in marketing? How do you use it?
[00:10:24] Speaker A: So in the public relations arena, basically what we can do is up until now, you had to actually know the people you were reaching out to. You'd have relationships, understand where they'd been in the past, where they were going in the future, all of that with AI, you don't need to do that. It simplifies the entire project completely for a lot of the things that, Richard, you mentioned in terms of what's been scraped already, it's out there. So it is just collecting all of the information it already knows about you or the journalists in this case and can identify. This is what this person cares about. This is what they're writing about right now. This is what they're posting and be able to deliver to them the exact piece of information you have to the very person who's interested in it in this moment. Sounds like magic, but it actually works. And that is AI. Up until then, you only had to have people with years and years of experience to be able to do that. Now, the closest thing I've gotten recently, I'm thinking about analogies in the clothing industry. At one point, all clothes were made by hand, individually for each person. They were custom made. Now, the agency that I ran for 30 years, it was a custom made agency, really very articulated for each individual that will still be needed. People will still want custom dresses, right? The Met gala, somebody's going to have a custom dress there. But eventually what ended up happening is you were able to have things go to everybody and it got cheaper and more accessible. And that's where we're headed here in PR, in marketing, in just picking up your phone and trying to get information. You're going to get the more generic version, but it'll mean more people will have more access.
[00:11:54] Speaker D: I never really thought of the trade off that way, because so much of what we do is based on relationships. And the quality of the service that we provide is based on an understanding of the client's business and where they want to go.
[00:12:09] Speaker A: And this could be a benefit for you in the future. But all the things that you just described in terms of the factors that you look to for folks that you represent, you could actually put that into AI right now. Ask those questions and it will give you the feedback on that individual and that company. But where you come in is you now can take all that, the material that would have maybe taken you three, 4 hours to research. You can now take that and add the value add that you bring to the meeting. The value add of experience. That's what AI won't be able to do. It won't be able to look at a lot of different things simultaneously and say, okay, this is what we do in this situation. That's still you. That's all you.
[00:12:44] Speaker F: I guess in terms of how PR applies to people, do you see an implementation outside of the product space?
[00:12:50] Speaker A: The process is no different. It's just that the AI takes all the work out of it, all of the research and the time that you spend truly trying to understand that person and where they're focused and all of that. It will just say, okay, these are the five people that are really going to care about what you have to say about your brand and such and then build off of those. It's the same thing with relationships. You don't remove relationships from the equation. They're still essential. But now you're talking to the right people as opposed to sending out a press release to 350 people you're going to focus it on ten people. And actually, then those people are the ones you're going to reach out to and actually have communication with. And I confess I am sort of expanded beyond the pr sphere. So it's just one of the wonderful implementations.
[00:13:31] Speaker D: Where can people reach you in a.
[00:13:32] Speaker A: Variety of places, but certainly.
[email protected] if it's a business side of it and if it's the art side.
[email protected] and how do you spell feeling? P as in Paula?
[00:13:42] Speaker D: H-E-L-A-N. Great passage to profit with Richard and Elizabeth Gearhart. Back for more after this commercial break.
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Now back to passage to profit. Once again, Richard and Elizabeth Gearhart and.
[00:15:55] Speaker B: Our special guest, Paula Phelan.
[00:15:57] Speaker D: Artificial intelligence and public relations.
[00:16:00] Speaker F: Kenya, can they use AI as a substitute for, like, a real PR person?
[00:16:06] Speaker A: Up to a point. By having this technology and being able to make these connections, it just reduces the cost as say, high priced agency. For many, many years, I could not support startups, not really. A lot of my friends, of course, are doing startups and such, and there was nothing I could do. There was no way I could financially be able to support them. With the staff that I had. By leveraging AI, they can now get quality PR in a way that they wouldn't have had access to before. And if you're really, really just getting started and you've only got a couple of can do it yourself, but be careful, that's the one thing, and that is the difference. PR people are professionals. There is a way to approach people, there is a way to have an understanding of what the needs are and requirements are of the media, and to recognize that as you're reaching out to them. And if you're just an individual in a startup, and I see this all the time, where they just assume that the journalists are order takers and that is not the case. They're individuals who have interest and write because they care about something. And it's a matter of being able to figure out who those people are and what they care about and giving them the right message at the right time.
[00:17:12] Speaker D: So one of the things that you talk about on your website is how important it is for entrepreneurs to have a PR strategy and try to position themselves and their companies as thought leaders in their particular industry, especially if they're looking for investment funding. Right. Because investors like the thought of investing in a company that has some sort of presence or is going to have some sort of impact. So maybe you could explain a little bit more about that.
[00:17:41] Speaker A: Yeah, this is really important. Thank you for bringing that up. The concept of if we build it, they will come, is very strong in Silicon Valley. We create this technology and then we hope we can find a place to sell it. It's important to realize from the very beginning that the vcs and the funding sources that you're going to as a startup, they need to hear about you, they need to know who you are and what you're doing and what it's about before you ask them for money. So they need to understand at least that you're out there, that you're real in some way. And the other thing that most people don't realize is when you go to somebody and you're asking for money, you're not asking for their money unless it's a private equity. But even then, those people asked other people for money, and so they need to be able to explain to those people why they're giving you money. So that is one of the reasons why PR is so important for startups. And it always broke my heart that I had to turn people away because it makes your funding process go so much smoother and you have to do it anyway.
[00:18:33] Speaker D: And if you have some earned media, then it gives your project credibility, right. Because somebody theoretically at least thinks enough of your business to put you out there, right, and kind of stand behind it.
[00:18:44] Speaker B: Well, Paula, I'd like to take a little step back. Could you please explain exactly what public relations is and what it encompasses?
[00:18:52] Speaker A: It's reaching an editor who writes stories and will listen to your story and then write about it. It's really that simple. But there's an ecosystem that's part of this, and that includes industry analysts and trade shows and podcasts and a wide variety of things that go into it as well. And PR feeds into all of that.
[00:19:12] Speaker B: So it's getting yourself out there in a positive light and connecting with the people that you want to have tell your story. It's true.
[00:19:19] Speaker A: But you know what else it does? It forces you to know your positioning and messaging.
[00:19:23] Speaker F: So are there any pitch points you would offer in terms of how to position yourself to get picked up?
[00:19:29] Speaker A: Perhaps. But my pitch point is more who is it you're talking to? Who is it is on the other side of the pitch? And what is it that they're going to care about, and is there a way that you can position yourself that actually aligns with what they care about? One of the things that I'm sure a lot of people are afraid of AI and people are afraid of computers back in the day is that it's going to take away our humanity. And at the end of the day, all it is, is a conduit to each other. We still have to stay open and talk to each other and be involved and actually listen as opposed to just throwing things. I mean, that's part of the problem with social media, right? It's yelling into the void. So really taking time and paying attention to who the individuals are.
[00:20:06] Speaker B: Well, I have a question for positioning yourself as a good person that people want to work with. How important do you think cause marketing is. It was a big buzz term a couple of years ago. Do you position yourself, say, look, part of my proceeds go to help children that are starving in the world. Do people kind of see through that or they think you're genuine, or how important is that?
[00:20:26] Speaker A: I think it really depends on the CEO, who the individual is. My attitude is we always gave quite a bit in funding, but we never promoted it because it's what we did. And for us it was around the staff and being able to make sure that this percentage of what we were offering made sense. And also it depends on who your clients are, is where you put your money in charity equivalent to your product. Is there a linkage there? So that's my issue with cause stuff.
[00:20:51] Speaker D: In any case, I want to change the focus, wondering about ROI in PR, because that's kind of one of the things that people bring up. It's like, well, okay, I got a couple of press releases, I showed up on a couple of programs. Where's the bottom line contribution there? What do you say to people who talk about PR like that?
[00:21:08] Speaker A: And I get that question all the time. My clients were all infrastructure solutions. So this is big money. Probably the average sale was somewhere. If anything was less than $2 million a sale, I'd be shocked. So in my world, if you get a piece of coverage and you get one lead that turns into a customer, you're done, you're golden, right? And this comes back to the AI and PR too. If you're selling something at a much lower price, can you really afford a full on agency unless you're doing big volume? There is an ROI issue here, and I say it's all in the pudding if you can generate the right coverage with the right people. And it's basically about leads. The main reason for doing pr is lead generation. Yes. Expanding your brand and all of that and getting people to know, but it's still about lead generation. What you want to be able to do is feel comfortable with somebody who you know has your back.
[00:21:58] Speaker D: And by that you mean somebody who's not just going to encourage you to go out and spend a lot of time and money on things that really probably won't help you too much.
[00:22:08] Speaker A: Absolutely. It's the caring piece that you can't replace with technology. Yeah.
[00:22:12] Speaker F: I was going to ask, when you take a look at brands or products, what would you say is like the perfect pr storm in terms of how to bring those type of things to life for a brand?
[00:22:23] Speaker A: There's sometimes luck, sometimes luck. Just things being at the right moment in history that'll really do it. It all depends on what field you're in. Entertainment is so different than branding for networking solutions.
[00:22:36] Speaker B: Right.
[00:22:36] Speaker A: If I was going to try to do one thing that overviewed everything, it'd be truth. How honest can you be in your branding that people can understand what you are and what you're doing and why it's important.
[00:22:47] Speaker D: Paula Feelin, an advisor for global AI solutions.
[00:22:50] Speaker B: One more thing. How do we get a hold of you real quick again?
[00:22:53] Speaker A: Paula Nadelfeelin. Nadel feelin.com or
[email protected] passage to profit.
[00:23:00] Speaker B: Road to entrepreneurship with Richard and Elizabeth Gearhart. Our special guest, Paula Felin. And we will be right back.
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[00:24:51] Speaker E: 808 244596. 808 244596. 808 244596. That's 808 244596. Passage to profit continues with Richard and Elizabeth Gearhart.
[00:25:10] Speaker D: Time for Power move with Kenya Gibson.
[00:25:13] Speaker F: Kenya so I had a really exciting weekend in Philadelphia this past weekend. I actually went down to Podcon, which was an event that I found out about a week ago. It was a free podcasting event for creators put on by wallow two six seven, which is who I want to give power moves to today because he rented out the whole met Philly, which is a big, beautiful theater there, probably about 5000 seats. He rented out the entire thing, gave everybody free tickets who wanted to come. And he had everyone from Charlemagne, the God who is the creator of the Black Effect podcast network on the panel, along with the head of video and content and advertising sales for YouTube. So it was a very awesome event. I learned a lot about podcasting and it's funny, you go to these events sometimes you think you know a lot until you get there and you're like.
[00:26:05] Speaker B: Oh, there's more to learn.
[00:26:06] Speaker F: But I'm giving him power move because I liked how he paid it forward, gave something away of value to folks, gave them access. And I thought that was a way to really pay it forward into the community. So wallow. Two six seven is our power move for today.
[00:26:21] Speaker D: Is he a podcaster?
[00:26:23] Speaker B: He is.
[00:26:23] Speaker F: He's one of the biggest podcasters. He's the host of million dollars worth of game. Him and his co host Gilly have that podcast and they started that from scratch with no subscribers. And now they are one of the top podcasts that's charting everywhere. You can listen to your podcast.
[00:26:39] Speaker D: Wow, congratulations to him for that.
[00:26:41] Speaker F: And he's teaching podcasts to people. And I heard you guys are paying it forward in the podcast community as well.
[00:26:46] Speaker D: Yes, which provides a nice segue from Power move to Elizabeth's projects. Tell us what you're up to, Elizabeth.
[00:26:52] Speaker B: So I usually talk about blue streak. I'm still doing that. I'm working on the website. I'm still doing the Jersey podcast podcast with Danielle Wooley. We took a little break and we're kind of regrouping podcasts. You get a format, you do it. It doesn't always have to stay the same. You evolve, you change. So we're going to go from an interview format to where she and I are talking this season about things that we think are important, that people want to know about. And if you have a podcast or something on YouTube and you have the comments open, see what people are saying in the comments, that's really what they want to know about. And then you can figure future episodes from what people are asking about in your comments. The next thing, though, that we're doing, Richard and I own a building in summit, New Jersey. We have the law firm in there. We had it almost full at points, but of course, then Covid hit, and even before COVID people were remote. So now we have this building. And you can't rent office space for the life of you because everybody's sitting there with their buildings half empty. Right. But during COVID Richard and I. Well, Richard mostly, I have to give him most credit, honestly. Put together a podcast studio in the upstairs of our building.
[00:28:00] Speaker D: Yes. My inner geek came out and I got with all the audio and the visual equipment and just went crazy.
[00:28:05] Speaker A: He did.
[00:28:06] Speaker B: He set up lights. We had a guy come in and show us where things should be for best effect. We have a rodecaster mixer for the sound. We just bought a video mixer editor machine. That'll help a lot with the video part of it. And so we've been doing that, and it dawned on me that we could let other people use this studio and we could help them with their podcasts. It's very local, and that's okay. I mean, we can do podcast consulting outside of just the local area. But what I really want to do is have people come to the studio in summit, New Jersey with us and do their podcast. We can help them from soup to nuts. Like, what do you want to do a podcast on? What do people want to hear about? I think what people should do a podcast about is what they're the most interested in, where their passion lies, and what they like to talk about. What do you think I do?
[00:28:51] Speaker F: I mean, people listen to podcasts because they want to learn something, right? And this is why I think passage to profit has been so successful, because we are considered edutainment. So we're here to educate and entertain. So if you can find a subject matter that you are an expert at or you want to teach people, I think that's the best way to go.
[00:29:09] Speaker D: Yeah, absolutely. And I would agree that I could talk about intellectual property all day and all night. The children are tired of hearing about it, the pets run out of the room when I come in. But the fact is that it's something I can talk about, which makes it good subject matter for entertainment and education.
[00:29:28] Speaker B: But the other thing, too, and Kenya, I know you're really super tuned into this. This is not like the early days of podcasting, where you just grab your phone and start talking. It's really become a business. And there are certain ways to do podcasts, right. And to get more attention. And the marketing piece is huge. So, I mean, how has that really changed, do you think, from the really early days?
[00:29:50] Speaker F: Well, obviously the whole creation has had this evolution, right? It started with people's phones. I will say, though, one of the things that I learned from that podcon that I went to is that you got to start somewhere, right? So if all you have is your phone, right? You still have access to YouTube, you still have access to all these audio channels. Start somewhere. And then I think just being able to cut your content down and finding the right bits and pieces and right moments from your content is really going to help your content go viral or have more engagement. For example, I learned that with YouTube, if you pay attention to where the spikes are in the watched hours inside of the YouTube studio, that is probably where you should cut your reels at, and that will help you create more engagement. So I was like, oh, that's a little bit of free game right there, right? So I think just paying attention to the trends, like how your content is trending, where people are engaging in certain moments, is really what you need to pay attention to. And then eventually, once you can monetize it a little bit and you have more resources, you can get a camera situation, you can get a studio situation. I don't know how much is it going to be to rent Gearhart Law's.
[00:30:57] Speaker B: Podcast studio if all you want to do is rent the studio, it's not going to be very expensive at all. If you want a produced video at the end, there will be fees for that. So we're going to bring people in that are experts that help us. So we're going to have an array of services that people can pick and choose from what they need. And I have somebody who's actually doing a meetup with me. Her name is Stacey Sherman and she's speaking at Podfest in Florida. She's really good. She does customer experience. And we're going to do a podcast after the meetup and talk about the high points from the meetup. So we'll have that little podcast going. But I'm thinking kind of for people who aren't very technical, they don't want to fool around with having to hook a microphone into a rodecaster and make sure it works right and get the lights positioned just so their face doesn't look all shadowy and stuff. So I'm thinking for people that just want to try it out, we could give them as much or as little as they want. For people that have a great podcast, know how to do it and just want a place to do it that's soundproofed and looks really cool, then they just have to pay rent.
[00:31:57] Speaker A: So, Paula, what are your favorite ways? What are the channels, your favorite marketing channels to promote podcasts?
[00:32:03] Speaker F: I would say I heart is the biggest. Spotify is the biggest. Obviously, Apple is an audio channel within itself, right? So you definitely make sure you want to be on those three. I think it's super important. There are other ones that you could be on, too.
[00:32:18] Speaker D: Pandora.
[00:32:19] Speaker A: Pandora.
[00:32:20] Speaker D: Google Podcast.
[00:32:20] Speaker B: Google podcast.
[00:32:21] Speaker F: But I would say those are the three major players. But Podbean is also an important place to be. It'll help you upload your podcast and kind of help you distribute it to all these different places. So I wouldn't say don't discount the smaller guys in the game because you'll get a lot of traction there in terms of, like downloads and listens and so on and so forth. But one other thing I wanted to share, which is why I'm glad you brought this up, is email marketing when it comes to podcast is really important, too. That's one of the things that I learned at the conference, because it's real estate that you own all these other places that you're putting yourself out there, like YouTube, Instagram, even like all these other audio channels, you don't own that real estate, right? So at any point in time, they could take your stuff down. But if you have a really good, I guess, Rolodex built up of email addresses, that's your core audience and you always have contact to them. So that's something I'm going to do better of this year is building up my email database.
[00:33:18] Speaker B: I like YouTube. And the reason I like YouTube is because you're talking about Alphabet as a stock to invest in if you really want to get in early on AI stocks. So Alphabet owns Google and YouTube. So now the big monster that is Google is behind YouTube. And I've said this before, I feel sorry for Apple because Apple developed this whole thing and they've got video podcasts. They developed the market, they got this really going, and now YouTube is going to walk in and say, well, we have video podcasts too, because YouTube has podcasts now and a lot of people are already on YouTube and a lot of people are searching Google. So we're going to just steal as much market share as we possibly can from you, Apple. Sorry.
[00:34:01] Speaker D: Well, that's the way of the capitalist mean. You kind of want them going after.
[00:34:05] Speaker B: Each know, the reason I say YouTube is because I know a lot of people are scared to be on video. I hate looking at myself on video. In fact, I'm looking at myself in the camera right now and it's like, oh, my gosh, really? How did that happen?
[00:34:17] Speaker D: But anyway, you're way too hard on yourself. You are extremely beautiful woman.
[00:34:22] Speaker B: Thank you, dear. But you can do a faceless YouTube video. You can put pictures on top. There are a lot of ways to do YouTube videos without having to put your face on there. You can still be talking and stuff. So as Kenya has pointed out, we used to do this show audio only. And then Kenya said, we need to do little videos of people in front of the logo for social media. So years ago, we started adding video for social media. And everybody that comes to the studio needs to get something for Instagram reels. They have to put this on reels. And so video gives you that. If you're just doing audio, you don't get the video piece for all the social media. I think that that is why the video is important. It's a lot easier to just do it audio in your pajamas, for sure.
[00:35:07] Speaker F: And one would argue, right, because even with the whole YouTube play and them coming into the podcast game, one would argue that you don't officially have a podcast if you don't have an RSS feed, which you cannot get through YouTube.
[00:35:21] Speaker B: Not yet.
[00:35:22] Speaker F: Not yet. You can only get an RSS feed through Apple and through the audio podcast player. So you're really kind of getting a vodcast is what YouTube is calling them. But to officially have a podcast, you have to have an RSS feed.
[00:35:36] Speaker B: So a little bit of a slippery slope. I heard a YouTube partner, he just did a video, it's recent, say that they're going to provide the RSS feed.
[00:35:44] Speaker D: So what is an RSS feed? It's the connection.
[00:35:47] Speaker F: It's the connection. It's the address that you get for your audio and that's what gets distributed to all the platforms. So you set that up once and your RSS feed is like your address, your podcast address.
[00:35:59] Speaker D: Right. So if you have a podcast, you put it on a podcast platform, correct. Like Castos or.
[00:36:07] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:36:08] Speaker D: And then there's an electrical connection that goes from there to Apple podcasts, to Google podcasts, all the different podcast places. And then people who listen to podcasts can go to the Google podcasts or Apple podcasts and listen to your podcast. And that's how it happens.
[00:36:24] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:36:25] Speaker F: It's kind of like a website for your podcast audio.
[00:36:27] Speaker D: Yeah. It surprises me that YouTube doesn't have that. Why don't they have that?
[00:36:31] Speaker B: They're pretty new to the game.
[00:36:33] Speaker D: Come on. They need to get know. We're tired of waiting.
[00:36:37] Speaker B: They just started YouTube podcasts about a year and a half podcast. So I have mine on both. So we have, for instance, Jersey podcasts that we use Buzsprout, but we do have it on YouTube. We have the whole videos on YouTube, and she puts the intro and outro on them and everything. But we have them on YouTube podcasts because they put YouTube podcasts in different places than just YouTube videos. So you get YouTube podcasts on YouTube music and other places. So you get more exposure if you put it on there as a podcast.
[00:37:08] Speaker D: What do people who are thinking about starting a podcast need to keep in mind in order to start a podcast? So we talked about subject matter. So what else do they need to do?
[00:37:16] Speaker B: Well, they either need to find a studio. I think it's easiest to find a studio and rent it and see if this is something that you really want to do instead of buying. I mean, we spent probably $2,500 on equipment, and I would not tell everybody to do that for our studio. So for me, if I were to do it starting today, I would go to a studio and just try it there and have people helping me.
[00:37:40] Speaker D: What about just using your phone?
[00:37:41] Speaker B: You can just use your phone. The thing is, you're going to get discouraged if nobody is downloading your podcast. You may have the best content anybody's ever heard the funniest joke, but if you don't market it, nobody's going to know that it exists.
[00:37:54] Speaker D: And the other part of that, too, is audio quality, is where it's at with podcasts, because all you get is the audio. And lots of times people recording on phones and stuff, you can't hear it. It's just not professional.
[00:38:07] Speaker B: Well, your content has to be good. So I started listening to this one. These guys were like five of the big business mistakes ever. I forget who they were, and they're like, yeah, well, we were going to have five, but we decided just to have one. So what did you eat for breakfast this morning, Tom? So I quit listening to it.
[00:38:26] Speaker F: I do want to mention one thing about YouTube really quick in terms of how it's going to be different from all the other major players in the podcast space. So YouTube is going to be able to serve your podcast to the audiences that are already built in, that are already engaging with content that is similar to yours. So unlike the audio platforms that are in place, your podcast will populate in content that is similar to yours, or they have audience behavior analytics that they're going to be able to match your content to. So they're going to be able to superserve your content and get it in front of more folks more effectively, which I think the audio companies need to innovate a way to be able to do that.
[00:39:05] Speaker B: So let's not give away. Any more secrets, dear? We're stopping this here, okay?
[00:39:10] Speaker F: I learned that for free, so I wanted to make sure at least our.
[00:39:13] Speaker D: Audience was just waiting for that moment.
[00:39:16] Speaker B: But I've been waiting this whole show to hear from Stephen Goberm. He's a musician. He's got steam worldwide music works, and he's been sitting here so patiently. So, please, Stephen, tell us how you started this, what you're all about.
[00:39:29] Speaker C: Anything surrounding creative stuff, but mostly on the music side. So I run a production company, so I work with artists, produce records, mix records, all that stuff.
[00:39:40] Speaker B: What kind of music?
[00:39:41] Speaker C: Mostly I'm jamaican, so reggae, dancehall, hip hop, and now afro beats is a thing. Now. We're finding there's less genres around. It's just music. It's very open, as long as it feels good, so it's less about the genres.
[00:39:58] Speaker B: That is my favorite kind of music. Feel good music, of course.
[00:40:03] Speaker D: So, Stephen, how'd you get involved in the music world and how did you build this business?
[00:40:08] Speaker C: Well, I was an avid music listener and I would always, as a kid, just be fascinated. How do you create music? And I'm a big technology buff, and I realized that there's a lot of technology involved in creating music nowadays. Right now there's AI, which is kind of scary for us creatives. But I'm learning to adopt some of that into my business as well, using AI to write campaigns and stuff like that. I'm really exploring that, but, yeah, I've been doing it for years. It's something I'm passionate about and I just like creating.
[00:40:46] Speaker B: Paula, you had something you wanted to ask.
[00:40:48] Speaker A: I too am a creative, so people always ask me, is AI going to destroy anyone ever making any money from anything creative? And my attitude is Napster started that. Napster and Limelight managed to do that all by themselves so that a creative can't stop creating. That is who you are. If you're going to do it, you're going to do it. And you might make money, you might not, but that is who you are, and you can't stop yourself. I don't see an answer to this, by the way. I believe that creatives just aren't going to make any money for a long time to come as long as AI and the Internet are out there. So I'll be curious how you hope to stay solvent.
[00:41:22] Speaker C: Yeah, the landscape is definitely changing, similar to years ago when the mp3 came about. This is just a new version of that. You got to evolve at some point. It is scary times, but I think the cream always rises to the top. So in a sense, where AI and technology, and it's easier to make music nowadays, right? You don't have to be the best singer. Everyone's auto tuned. Like 99% of the music is auto tuned. I do it in my productions, someone might hit them wrong note, I just shift it instead of doing 100 takes, trying to nail it, right? So there's a tool for me to say, hey, instead of spending hours in the studio, I could just, hey, maybe I could do it in 10 minutes, right? So I think right now is as far as making money, it's more about licensing. So there it comes to ip, owning your ip. You hear artists talking about owning their masters, so that's how they're generating revenue. And now they're less dependent on major record labels, and now they could put out their own music, just like how you put out your own podcast, right? So it's just all about just making quality content. I look at music as just content these days. Just put it out there and see what people react to and make adjustments accordingly. So it's definitely different times.
[00:42:49] Speaker D: Wow. So you say it's just content. To me that means you're less concerned about the artistic pieces of it and kind of going towards something that's more mechanically oriented.
[00:43:00] Speaker C: No, I mean in the sense of how music is distributed nowadays, where it's less about someone's going to go into a tower records, I know I'm dating myself and buying an album now. It's more about, okay, the audio content is if a million people are using my audio in their reels, that's generating revenue as well. So even for social media, that's another means of income for musicians. So it's just adapting to what's out there. Using music for advertisements and sync licensing and all that stuff. So it's more about making quality content. And I could get it into other avenues, not just, okay, let's sell a million records and we're rich. Those days are done. I think the misconception is if you have a million views, that means you have a million dollars, that doesn't exist. So even for artists now that are going viral, which is very scary, because just by happenstance, you could upload a song today, it goes viral overnight, and you never hear from that artist ever again. So that's the modern day one hit wonder, right?
[00:44:08] Speaker D: Right.
[00:44:09] Speaker C: Because back in the day you would say, okay, you have your Anr department and that would work with an artist to develop them, get them media training, all that stuff, all that is mute right. So it's kind of scary. It's saturated. The music landscape is super saturated. So that's why I said it's all about making quality content. I'm sure there's a million podcasts out there in the world, so it's all the same, in my opinion.
[00:44:34] Speaker D: Yeah, I mean, I was looking at some podcast music websites. They have thousands and thousands of songs by artists I've never heard of before. Right. And you can download these and you don't have to worry about copyright strikes. Right. On your content. But that does create a new market for musicians. Sure. That's a new opportunity for them to capitalize on their creativity. Absolutely.
[00:44:58] Speaker C: I mean, getting your music into these libraries, as we call them, it's all part of sync licensing. So for independent artists, it kind of opens up more doors than saying, all right, I have to have my record on a radio station to generate some revenue and things like that.
[00:45:15] Speaker F: There's a lot of different channels now.
[00:45:17] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:45:17] Speaker F: What's interesting is it's almost the reverse engineering of what it used to be. So back in the day, the radio stations would crack the.
And then, you know, it would go crazy where it's reverse now, where we kind of listen to see if a record is getting traction in the streets, in the clubs, on social media, on YouTube, and then it backs into the radio play. So it's the opposite. It's changed a lot.
[00:45:41] Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. We see it time and time again where if an artist goes viral and that record is attached to all these different reels, then the record label will come to that artist and say, hey, we like your song. It's less risk for them in a sense, because they're looking at how viral that artist is and they're just giving out deals based on that.
[00:46:03] Speaker F: There's a level of familiarity already there right. When it comes to it. So it's a little bit easy to market because audiences are already familiar.
[00:46:11] Speaker D: So if you want to be a star, the star singer or star rock band or whatever, how does that happen now? As opposed to maybe the way it happened in 1960s with the Rolling Stones.
[00:46:22] Speaker C: Or whatever, it's uploading content to the Internet. That's really it in modern history. You could look at an artist like Justin Bieber, just a kid with a guitar on YouTube, and he went viral. And look at where Bieber is now. Right. So now that's almost like the standard is, okay, let me develop content. Let me put out myself. Let me upload to all the social media platforms. Let's build a following. It's all about the following. And now you could look at, okay, if I have 1000 followers that's going to engage with me, that's going to buy my content, my merchandise. So now I could start selling merch. And yeah, I may not sell out an arena, but if I have a smaller venue and I have 1000 people guaranteed that they're going to buy a ticket to my show and buy my merch, I could make a living. Right. So it's all about targeting your audience and the engagement. It's key.
[00:47:19] Speaker D: It's very entrepreneurial.
[00:47:20] Speaker A: Yeah, I was going to say this is happening in art and all forms of creative because you have to have a following. If you're a writer, if you're an artist, you need to be having a following before anybody's ever going to sign you up. So it applies.
[00:47:32] Speaker B: So what's the best social media channel for music?
[00:47:35] Speaker C: It's definitely YouTube because it's pretty much open, it's free. So you got to think about other regions of the world where certain platforms aren't available in those countries. So now it's not just okay looking at the United states, it's really looking at the entire world and see where your music is resonating. Right. So now you have all that data. So now when I want to push a campaign, I could say, all right, this part of the world is responding to this music. So I'll just market there and build it up. So we have these tools available, which is really cool that you never had before. You just put your music out there and hope someone will engage with it. Now we could see that data in real time.
[00:48:18] Speaker D: Would you advise a young person who's interested in becoming a musician to spend more time studying computers or more time practicing their instrument?
[00:48:29] Speaker C: Both.
It's really both. You're going to get to a point where you're like, I've reached mastery level, but now I have to be at least efficient with all these other tools like AI and marketing and things of.
[00:48:42] Speaker D: That nature, which is interesting because I know a lot of creatives who just hate anything that's mechanical.
[00:48:49] Speaker C: I know work with them.
[00:48:54] Speaker D: I want to sing. I don't care about that.
[00:48:56] Speaker C: Yeah. And that comes down to it not saying every musician or every artist has to be that person. It's also having a solid team around you.
[00:49:05] Speaker A: One of the questions I had, is there a way to be able to have music trend more on YouTube? Is there something that you can do to punch it up?
[00:49:14] Speaker C: Yeah, you could boost. I do boosts all the time, especially on Instagram. You could pick your audience, which regions hashtag things, people who like this type of artist, and you could kind of push your ads towards those people. So, yeah, there's definitely strategies.
[00:49:32] Speaker B: Yeah. That's one thing I love about YouTube. It gives you incredible analytics. Right?
[00:49:37] Speaker D: Absolutely.
[00:49:38] Speaker C: It's Google. Right, right.
[00:49:39] Speaker A: It's Google.
[00:49:40] Speaker B: So you can find out so much about your audience and who else they're listening to. So, yeah, I mean, if you have that kind of brain where you like looking at data, and if you don't, then you should get someone to do it for you, like Paula or someone who owns a marketing agency who can tell you this is what you got to do.
[00:49:57] Speaker C: Absolutely.
[00:49:58] Speaker B: Steven Goberm, he's got steam. Worldwide music works.
[00:50:01] Speaker F: You have new music that you're promoting.
[00:50:03] Speaker C: Oh, yeah, sure.
[00:50:04] Speaker D: Right.
[00:50:04] Speaker F: And you have a new song, a new artist.
[00:50:06] Speaker C: So, yeah. So most recently, I'm working with an artist. His name is Don Ute, based out of Florida in Miami. And we just came out with this record. It's called holiday and official music video. So you could go check that out on YouTube. So donut. D-O-N. Space. Y-U-T-E. Holiday. I fully produced it, and that's the record I'm servicing right now.
[00:50:27] Speaker B: Excellent.
[00:50:28] Speaker C: How can people find you at Steam worldwide? So S-T-E-A-M. Worldwide. Ig on Twitter. That's the best way to get to me and your artist at Donyute. And you'll see us promoting the song and video heavily there.
[00:50:44] Speaker B: Awesome. Passage to profit the road to entrepreneurship with Richard and Elizabeth Gearhart and of course, Kenya Gibson, our media maven. And we will be right back after these messages.
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[00:51:59] Speaker B: Noah Fleischman is our producer here at passage to profit, and he never stops trying to make sense of the future by looking at the past.
[00:52:08] Speaker I: A leading sociologist, in a recent interview, made a claim that the source of most of our problems in society today generate from a lack of discipline. I believe it. Look, when we were small children, our parents told us exactly what we were going to wear, exactly what we were going to eat, and exactly when to go to bed. When I was a child, the television stations did that, too, with tv programming. They told us exactly what our choices were, exactly when we could see them, and exactly what we weren't going to be able to see. This whole world of on demand, anything, anytime we want. Is blowing us into a world of constant indecision. It's getting out of control. I mean, if you're not somebody that can actually lie on the bed and flip through 1495 channels in 4 minutes at night, chances are you're living with somebody that can. And even that's a little crazy. We've got to treat television like the treat that it is. Take it back to basics. Here's something you can try for next week. Make a list of all the shows you might like to watch. Create your own little tv guide. Then, when tv time rolls around, make a choice. Watch the one you really want to see and sacrifice the others. And then, like in the good old days, wait a year until you can see the ones you missed all over again. If it's discipline we need, do this for a year. We'll be the best behaved society in the world.
[00:53:21] Speaker E: Now more with Richard and Elizabeth. Passage to profit.
[00:53:25] Speaker D: And now it's time for the question. So, Elizabeth, what is our question for the show?
[00:53:30] Speaker B: So, Paula, I am going to ask you first. What do you enjoy most at any given moment?
[00:53:36] Speaker A: If I am just at rest, even here, it's shocking. I haven't started. I draw. It's an endless thing, but it makes me very joyful.
[00:53:43] Speaker B: Excellent. Stephen Goburn, what do you enjoy most?
[00:53:47] Speaker C: Enjoying life. And that would entail spending time with family and also creating music. That's just part of me. That's just written in my dna.
[00:53:56] Speaker B: I agree. Kenya, what do you enjoy most? And it can be more than one thing.
[00:54:00] Speaker F: I have a very simple answer.
[00:54:01] Speaker B: It's sleep.
[00:54:02] Speaker D: You took my answer.
Darn it. I have to think of something else.
[00:54:07] Speaker F: It's my favorite thing. My husband will attest to it. Sleep is healthy, too. I feel like I do a million things. So it's like when I have time and it's free time, I'm all about my sleep.
[00:54:17] Speaker B: I don't enjoy sleep. I have to sleep. But I have such vivid dreams all the time. That it is hard. It's like I am living another life during my sleep. But what I enjoy the most, honestly, I've thought about this. I really like hearing people's stories. I really enjoy talking to people and hearing what their story is. That is like one of my favorite things to do. And I realized that just recently I started going out networking a lot again and talking to a lot more people. And it's like, this is really fun.
[00:54:51] Speaker D: That's good. And sleep is one thing that AI can't take away from us. Right. At least not for a while.
[00:54:57] Speaker A: Actually, what I was going to say is you should feed those dreams into AI, and it'll be pretty interesting. You'll get some good imagery and you'll get some good stories, but you won't.
[00:55:05] Speaker D: Be able to copyright it.
[00:55:10] Speaker B: Yes.
The reason I ask this is because I think it's important as entrepreneurs. I think the reason we become entrepreneurs is to do what we enjoy.
[00:55:19] Speaker D: Like most things in life, you start out and you're very enthusiastic, and then the rubber hits the road. Right. You have to deal with the challenges as well as the pleasures of the journey. But at least if you get to pick your own journey, you get to pick your own challenges. Right. And I think there's a lot to be said for that.
[00:55:36] Speaker B: I really think there is. I did want to bring back one thing with the AI. So I've been trying to do these stories and trying to illustrate them, and I watched scary stories that were done by AI. And the voice is very monotone and the pictures are very flat. But the biggest thing was the creativity wasn't there.
[00:55:55] Speaker A: I often get asked, well, wait a minute. If AI is going to write everything, why do we need writers and all of this? Once you start working with AI on a regular basis, you can always recognize something creative, pure AI, that doesn't have that human element to it. It's flat. It's just what you described. And that's the thing. I mean, people who are submitting material into journalists and studios, you can see it. You know, when something's written with AI, you need that person behind it to make it special.
[00:56:20] Speaker D: Paulafelin Global AI solutions where can people reach you?
[00:56:24] Speaker A:
[email protected] if it's a business side of it and if it's the art side.
[email protected] and how do you spell feeling? P as in Paula?
[00:56:32] Speaker D: H-E-L-A-N. Great passage to profit with Richard and Elizabeth Gearhart. Before we go, I'd like to thank the passage to profit team Noah Fleischmann, our producer Alicia Morrissey, our program director. Our podcast can be found tomorrow anywhere you find your podcast. Just look for the passage to profit show and you can find us on Instagram and threads at passage to profit show and Twitter. Or if you're even more up to date, x at passage to profit and on our YouTube channel, please also join us on our new Facebook group search for passage to profit show listener community a new community space for our listeners and guests where you can post questions that you would like answered on the show and interact with the passage to profit team. And remember, while the information on this program is believed to be correct, never take a legal step without checking with your legal professional first. Gearhart Law is here for your patent, trademark and copyright needs. You can find us at Gear heartlaw.com and contact us for a free consultation. Take care everybody. Thanks for listening and we'll be back next week.
